Slave trade in a globalised world.

[KageKamen]

In classical times, the Roman Empire took slaves from all over... you might find a Briton for sale in an Egyptian market or vice versa, and you would certainly find both in Rome. In later eras, countless Africans were shipped across the Atlantic to the Americas, forever influencing the population demographics there. And even today, far more people are moved from country to country to serve as legal or semi-legal unfree labour than we would like to think.

Although there are various other considerations, these flows of trade mostly follow the laws of supply and demand - from poorer and colonial countries to richer and imperialistic ones. Of course, such countries often have ways of "domestic production" of slaves as well. And especially when slaves have ways of rising to freedom or even citizenship, foreign imports can be the foundation of new and lasting threads in a country's ethnic and cultural tapestry.

So, in a world much like ours, but where chattel slavery is as omnipresent as capitalism and slaves as common as cars... where would they come from, and where would they go too? Which countries would have larger or smaller slave populations (absolute or relative)? How would imports compare to local-bred descendants or former citizens enslaved for crime or debt? Would slaves of different origins tend to take different roles, fetch different prices, be more or less likely to achieve manumission? And what effect might this have on global population dynamics?

Well, those are a few questions - discuss whichever take your fancy.

 

[cynthia the inocent]

I dont know if it would be a good thing, but useing non violent criminals as slaves like indentured servants might be acceptable. The owner would pay off the penalty, and use the slave for the time the court allowed. I would buy one one to do house work and if she was agreeable mabey use her to entertain my ladies at our lesbian meetings. She would recieve better treatment than she would in prison.

 

[theseus]

A very interesting topic of discussion. Slavery has been part of the human condition probably since the dawn of agriculture. Every war in the ancient world, and in some ways until well into the last century, produced prisoners of war who were used for slave labour. The Romans, and others, took slavery to an industrial scale, enslaving entire nations. This trade has captured the imagination of many, including probably everyone reading this. The slave trade from West Africa to the Americas has become a notorious element in recent history. Just a few months ago the matter of compensation for the victims of this trade was raised in the UN General Assembly. Yet, somehow so many other trades have vanished into the mists of history.

There was a significant slave trade in the Indian Ocean for thousands of years. Before the time of Christ places like Kilwa Kisiwane in southern Tanzania traded with Persia and other parts of the world, all the usual items, ivory, gems, gold, and slaves. This trade was formally ended in the 1870's although it continued beyond that, and to some extent continues today.

Another often repeated myth is that slavery, post the Romans, was the fate only of dark skinned people. Largely forgotten are the slavers of North Africa, who raided the coasts of the Mediterranean for millions of slaves until as late as the 19th Century. Seldom mentioned are the raids further afield. Ireland was a favourite hunting ground for slavers in recent (more or less) times, from the Vikings to the Barbary slavers, who regularly raided that island until the 17th Century. One Barbary slaver raided even as far as Iceland, taking almost the entire population of Vestmannyar in the 1600's.

Indentured service was slavery with another name, but with a fixed term. The Irish suffered again, util the 19th century. Pacific Islanders were used as indentured labourers until well into the 20th century, and there are still survivors of the trade seeking compensation from the courts. Slavery, including a trade in slaves meant for sex, continues to this day. Interestingly, every time I sign an IMO mandated Seafarer's Contract, there is a paragraph about The Modern Slavery Act!

The more impoverished parts of the world, and those destroyed by war, such as Syria and Iraq, are, and would be in a mythical time in the future where slavery was once again legal, a fertile source of slaves. For many people today, a form of slavery where the slave was fed, housed, and given medical attention would be little different from their present lives, and often an improvement. Sex slavery exists, and those slaves would also probably be better off in a legal system with safeguards.

I look forward to this discussion.

 

[KageKamen]

I look forward to this discussion.

I do too, but there doesn't seem to be much take-up...

 

[theseus]

I do too, but there doesn't seem to be much take-up...

A few pictures of slave girls might help.

Seriously, there is a trade in high end sex slaves which seems to be doing very well. I'm not talking about Russian strippers and things like that, but people who knowingly sell themselves, through established dealers, into sexual slavery. That system could well be legalised and regulated.

 

[KageKamen]

A few pictures of slave girls might help.

Seriously, there is a trade in high end sex slaves which seems to be doing very well. I'm not talking about Russian strippers and things like that, but people who knowingly sell themselves, through established dealers, into sexual slavery. That system could well be legalised and regulated.

...OK, perhaps I wasn't very clear in the OP, but this certainly isn't a thread for advocating a modern slave trade, or even discussing real ones except as a reference. It's for discussion of trade flows in a realistic fantasy world with widespread open slavery. (Which, apparently, is not a topic which seems to interest people... *sigh*...)

 

[Vladimir_Vladislav]

In classical times, the Roman Empire took slaves from all over... you might find a Briton for sale in an Egyptian market or vice versa, and you would certainly find both in Rome. In later eras, countless Africans were shipped across the Atlantic to the Americas, forever influencing the population demographics there. And even today, far more people are moved from country to country to serve as legal or semi-legal unfree labour than we would like to think.

Although there are various other considerations, these flows of trade mostly follow the laws of supply and demand - from poorer and colonial countries to richer and imperialistic ones. Of course, such countries often have ways of "domestic production" of slaves as well. And especially when slaves have ways of rising to freedom or even citizenship, foreign imports can be the foundation of new and lasting threads in a country's ethnic and cultural tapestry.

So, in a world much like ours, but where chattel slavery is as omnipresent as capitalism and slaves as common as cars... where would they come from, and where would they go too? Which countries would have larger or smaller slave populations (absolute or relative)? How would imports compare to local-bred descendants or former citizens enslaved for crime or debt? Would slaves of different origins tend to take different roles, fetch different prices, be more or less likely to achieve manumission? And what effect might this have on global population dynamics?

Well, those are a few questions - discuss whichever take your fancy.

A very interesting scenario.

Sadly, in one form or another, slavery still exists noawadays, in the form of forced prostitution and forced or underpaid labor. However, detaching ourselves from the darker aspects of our reality and strictly focusing on the realm of hypotheticals and fiction, well... I could think of the following scenario:


Let's say that we have a society, be it on Earth or on a planet that was later colonized by humans. Slaves are most of the time useful for manual labor or tasks that don't require a lot of training (of course, there are several exceptions to this rule, for example, ancient Egyptian slaves sometimes served as accountants or advisors). Therefore, we can expect that there would be a higher population of slaves in countries with a more primitive economy, mostly focused on agriculture, mining, logging and on some simple industries (e.g. lumber production). In such a system, it's way easier to keep an economy running with a lot of slaves. Therefore, undeveloped nations would have a large amount of slaves. While minorities and immigrants would be susceptible to this kind of treatment (since the rulers can't be bothered to spend time educating and integrating them in their society), I think they would also enslave people from the dominant ethnic or racial group.

In technologically advanced society with complex industries and with a lot of citizens working jobs that require a lot of education and training, it is unlikely that slavery would be so commonly used. A lot of the manual labor would be done by the machines. However, it is likely that they would still be using slaves for other purposes: sexual pleasure, entertainment, etc. We might see a resurface of colonization, where technologically advanced colonial empires use the natives as slaves for manual labor. Then again, this would likely happen when a nation with a strong military can't rely on advanced industry, automated labor and services for a stable economy and has to rely on colonization. I could also see that middle class or upper-middle class families would hire slaves as maids, gardeners, janitors, etc.

However, some sort of system would be needed in order to govern how slavery works. I'm thinking of a few possible rules:
-citizens that commit severe crimes become slaves of the state. The state might choose to offer their labor to corporations in order to generate income;
-citizens with severe financial debts would have the option to serve as slaves for some period of time, in order to pay their debts;
-some corporations might offer the service of slave labor to common citizens in exchange for money;
-perhaps, we could have private slaves (controlled by individual citizens or corporations) and state slaves. The slaves of the state would live in prisons or in special neighborhoods or housing facilities of the state;
-as long as they obey the law, state slaves should never be killed;
-slaves will be able to acquire qualifications for certain jobs, which will allow their owners to sell them for higher prices;
-if a slave owner dies and there's nobody to inherit the slaves, they will become property of the state.

Criminals, prisoners of war, people with high debts, they are all likely to become slaves.

This whole situation would of course lead to lower migration (since nobody wants to risk becoming a slave). The influx of slaves would come from the colonized or occupied countries, going to the colonial empires or dominating nations. This would of course, lead to more hostility between nations and to the appearance of rebels and freedom fighters that will attack the dominant empires.

 

[KageKamen]

A very interesting scenario.

The idea of the state as ultimate owner, with all private ownership being basically subletting, is also interesting (even if some might scorn it as "communist").

 

[agricola64]

A very interesting topic of discussion. Slavery has been part of the human condition probably since the dawn of agriculture. Every war in the ancient world, and in some ways until well into the last century, produced prisoners of war who were used for slave labour. The Romans, and others, took slavery to an industrial scale, enslaving entire nations. This trade has captured the imagination of many, including probably everyone reading this. The slave trade from West Africa to the Americas has become a notorious element in recent history. Just a few months ago the matter of compensation for the victims of this trade was raised in the UN General Assembly. Yet, somehow so many other trades have vanished into the mists of history.

There was a significant slave trade in the Indian Ocean for thousands of years. Before the time of Christ places like Kilwa Kisiwane in southern Tanzania traded with Persia and other parts of the world, all the usual items, ivory, gems, gold, and slaves. This trade was formally ended in the 1870's although it continued beyond that, and to some extent continues today.

Another often repeated myth is that slavery, post the Romans, was the fate only of dark skinned people. Largely forgotten are the slavers of North Africa, who raided the coasts of the Mediterranean for millions of slaves until as late as the 19th Century. Seldom mentioned are the raids further afield. Ireland was a favourite hunting ground for slavers in recent (more or less) times, from the Vikings to the Barbary slavers, who regularly raided that island until the 17th Century. One Barbary slaver raided even as far as Iceland, taking almost the entire population of Vestmannyar in the 1600's.

Indentured service was slavery with another name, but with a fixed term. The Irish suffered again, util the 19th century. Pacific Islanders were used as indentured labourers until well into the 20th century, and there are still survivors of the trade seeking compensation from the courts. Slavery, including a trade in slaves meant for sex, continues to this day. Interestingly, every time I sign an IMO mandated Seafarer's Contract, there is a paragraph about The Modern Slavery Act!

The more impoverished parts of the world, and those destroyed by war, such as Syria and Iraq, are, and would be in a mythical time in the future where slavery was once again legal, a fertile source of slaves. For many people today, a form of slavery where the slave was fed, housed, and given medical attention would be little different from their present lives, and often an improvement. Sex slavery exists, and those slaves would also probably be better off in a legal system with safeguards.

I look forward to this discussion.

a few additions .. it is argueable that slavery was existing even in pre-agricultural societies .. after killing all the males the females were usually taken as war booty

Saudi Arabia officially ended slavery in 1962 (with rumor that the trade still persists until today - same for Mauretania)

modern (post-Gadaffi) Lybia supposedly also has reestablish (underground) slave markets