Our Fascination with the Romans, why?

[Praefectus Praetorio]

Amen, Amen!

(anyone get the pun?)

OK since no one know the pun (or maybe no one cares - my questions can be obscure) I will explain

I was commenting on the statement that Aramaic was common in the middle east and responded with what is called the affirmative use of amen. However, not all know that amen is Aramaic! It means truly. So when the KJV would translate Jesus's saying in the Gospel of John, his double amen was rendered: "Verily, verily, (I say to you)"

 

[Tricia]

To me it's hard to tell why I'm hooked to something like the roman way of crucifixion, because I hated going to church and actually, I'm not into violence.

This is a point where I can't understand myself. With the time and the folks here in the forum I have learned to accept and enjoy it. I have been attracted already by crucifixion as a child. We were forced to go to church on Sundays, and there was this huge altar with that medieval painting of the crucifixion, showing the men, especially the thieves with almost nothing covering their sex. Looking closer, I could see the roots of the penises of the thieves. One of them white skinned, and the other one tanned. Only the white skinned Jesus is nailed in the middle. On the walls around me the paintings of the stations of the cross.

It was the same for me...I was surrounded it by it growing up and the artwork left little to the imagination.

 

[Eulalia]

Why am I never invited???

You're wearing the wrong hat

 

[willowfall]

In fact, all of the New Testament was originally written in Greek. An official Latin translation (the Vulgate) didn't come about until the late IV century.

Remember ALL of the writers of the New Testament grew up in the Hellenized East. Therefore, their 'international' language of commerce and government was Greek, therefore that is what they would have written in to reach a wider audience than just the Aramaic speaking population.

That does not even remotely translate into Greek being the official language of the Empire.

Latin was the language of the Empire administration. You can see it today on the monument inscriptions, on the official government documents which were issued in both the local languages and Latin in order to ensure their being official. The Roman emperors spoke Latin and so did their generals and governors and so did anybody who wanted to be high up.

Look at the Rosetta stone. There wasn't a Greek translation of the Hieroglyphics on there because the Egyptians needed it, it is there because they wanted non-Egyptians to be able to read what the government was saying. That doesn't make Greek the official language of Egypt.

The situation in the world today is very similar, look at the UN. While it recognizes several "official" languages, virtually everything is done primarily in English. The Chinese may insist in official documents being issued in Chinese and having a translation going during speeches but virtually everybody who doesn't speak one of the official languages (ex: French) is working with the English translations not the Chinese or French.

kisses

willowfall

 

[Loxuru]

We seem to look back on 'the' Roman civilisation. But would a Roman, living at the beginning of the Punic Wars, for instance, still recognise 'his' Rome, when he suddenly would make a time travel to Augustus' times? And would a Roman from Augustus' times still recognise his world in the times of Diocletian or Caracalla? There is a lot of heritage left from Roman times, but do we not focus on the times, let's say from the First Triumvirate to Nero's death, and erronously assume that Rome has Always been like that? And how far are our views influenced by the production designers of peplum movies in the fifties and sixties?
Just wondering.

 

[Barbaria1]

We seem to look back on 'the' Roman civilisation. But would a Roman, living at the beginning of the Punic Wars, for instance, still recognise 'his' Rome, when he suddenly would make a time travel to Augustus' times? And would a Roman from Augustus' times still recognise his world in the times of Diocletian or Caracalla? There is a lot of heritage left from Roman times, but do we not focus on the times, let's say from the First Triumvirate to Nero's death, and erronously assume that Rome has Always been like that? And how far are our views influenced by the production designers of peplum movies in the fifties and sixties?
Just wondering.

Ah yes, all those old sand and sandals epics!

 

[windar]

We seem to look back on 'the' Roman civilisation. But would a Roman, living at the beginning of the Punic Wars, for instance, still recognise 'his' Rome, when he suddenly would make a time travel to Augustus' times? And would a Roman from Augustus' times still recognise his world in the times of Diocletian or Caracalla? There is a lot of heritage left from Roman times, but do we not focus on the times, let's say from the First Triumvirate to Nero's death, and erronously assume that Rome has Always been like that? And how far are our views influenced by the production designers of peplum movies in the fifties and sixties?
Just wondering.

If you use CF as your source of information, you would conclude that the Romans spent 99.9% of their time crucifying nubile young women (though miraculously, all of them were at lest 10 minutes past their 18th birthday) One wonders how they found time to eat, go to the bathroom, conduct business, etc....

View attachment 613636Ah yes, all those old sand and sandals epics!

That's SWORD and sandals, Moore. Geez, where would you be without me?

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

If you use CF as your source of information, you would conclude that the Romans spent 99.9% of their time crucifying nubile young women (though miraculously, all of them were at lest 10 minutes past their 18th birthday) One wonders how they found time to eat, go to the bathroom, conduct business, etc....

That's SWORD and sandals, Moore. Geez, where would you be without me?

We don't SEE, we PERCEIVE. Human brains do a massive amount of processing, comparing, compartmentalizing, editing and interpreting what comes though out sense, especially vision. When I look at a lovely lady (many of the avatars here for example!), I don't see the actual physical face, I see the construct in my mind and I image her naked and passionate! As I said, I'm a male pig. But I enjoy it!

 

[Eulalia]

That does not even remotely translate into Greek being the official language of the Empire.

Greek was always the major language of administration, commerce and official communication in the eastern part of the Empire,
which was the most populous and prosperous, and of course from the late 3rd century on, the Empire was effectively divided
into the Greek east and the Latin west, a state of affairs that became absolute after 395.

 

[thehangingtree]

Greek was always the major language of administration, commerce and official communication in the eastern part of the Empire,
which was the most populous and prosperous, and of course from the late 3rd century on, the Empire was effectively divided
into the Grek east and the Latin west, a state of affairs that became absolute after 395.

Is that 4:35 AM?

 

[Barbaria1]

Is that 4:35 AM?

Geeeez, Tree ....

 

[thehangingtree]

Geeeez, Tree ....

WHAT??? Should it be PM???

 

[Eulalia]

Well, at least that's getting us back on topic - post meridiem is good Latin.

 

[nux581]

Having just finished an excellent book on Rome's great rival Carthage (titled, Carthage Must Die!), I have to believe that fascination with Rome comes in large part from the sheer amount of Roman writings that survived the tumult of passing years. As to our common kink, I was surprised to find out that the Carthaginians crucified many, many people. Unlike the Romans, execution by crucifixion was meted out to citizens. In fact, it was the preferred way to dispose of deposed rulers and losing generals. I am guessing that the Romans started crucifying after seeing the enthusiasm the Carthaginians, civilized long before Rome, had for nailing people up. After all, many a captive Roman groaned and gasped dying breaths nailed to a Carthaginian cross.

Anyways, knowledge of Carthaginian life actually comes from Roman writings based on Carthaginian scrolls. All the original material was destroyed by vengeful and arrogant Romans. Believing themselves the only truly civilized people of the ancient world (although the Greeks were granted some respect), the Romans did nothing to preserve the writings of the peoples they conquered. Only a fraction of Roman material has survived, so much of our view of the ancient world comes from the fraction of the fraction that Roman authors dedicated to observing and translating those other ancient civilizations. Thus, we have a vivid and fascinating view of Roman daily life, but all the other Mediterranean civilizations are seen through the distorting lens of disdainful Roman eyes.

No doubt our crucifixion kink would be wonderfully enhanced if we could add in Carthage. The whole process of condemning a returning general, and possibly their family, to a public spectacle of crucifixion is quite stimulating. Sadly, we just don't know what happened. No details! We have teased out so much from the scant records left by the Romans. Nothing comparable exists for the Carthaginians.

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

WHAT??? Should it be PM???

Tree, you are mixing up GMT with US daylight savings - very naughty!

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

Having just finished an excellent book on Rome's great rival Carthage (titled, Carthage Must Die!), I have to believe that fascination with Rome comes in large part from the sheer amount of Roman writings that survived the tumult of passing years. As to our common kink, I was surprised to find out that the Carthaginians crucified many, many people. Unlike the Romans, execution by crucifixion was meted out to citizens. In fact, it was the preferred way to dispose of deposed rulers and losing generals. I am guessing that the Romans started crucifying after seeing the enthusiasm the Carthaginians, civilized long before Rome, had for nailing people up. After all, many a captive Roman groaned and gasped dying breaths nailed to a Carthaginian cross.

Anyways, knowledge of Carthaginian life actually comes from Roman writings based on Carthaginian scrolls. All the original material was destroyed by vengeful and arrogant Romans. Believing themselves the only truly civilized people of the ancient world (although the Greeks were granted some respect), the Romans did nothing to preserve the writings of the peoples they conquered. Only a fraction of Roman material has survived, so much of our view of the ancient world comes from the fraction of the fraction that Roman authors dedicated to observing and translating those other ancient civilizations. Thus, we have a vivid and fascinating view of Roman daily life, but all the other Mediterranean civilizations are seen through the distorting lens of disdainful Roman eyes.

No doubt our crucifixion kink would be wonderfully enhanced if we could add in Carthage. The whole process of condemning a returning general, and possibly their family, to a public spectacle of crucifixion is quite stimulating. Sadly, we just don't know what happened. No details! We have teased out so much from the scant records left by the Romans. Nothing comparable exists for the Carthaginians.

Excellent post, covering several concepts very well
As a Latin enthusiast, I would point out the origin of Carthage must Die.
Between the second and last Punic Wars (as the Roman / Carthaginian wars were called) the nasty old Roman senator, Cato the Elder, would end every speech he gave with the phrase, "Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam" (Furthermore, I also judge that Carthage must be destroyed). A man who held a grudge (a typical Roman).

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

BTW, delendam is from the verb delere meaning to destroy or erase - the English "delete" comes for it. So thank Latin, the next time you use the delete key on the Cruxforms images you've downloaded and now need to erase before your boss come to your cubicle (of course another Latin word)

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

BTW, delendam is from the verb delere meaning to destroy or erase - the English "delete" comes for it. So thank Latin, the next time you use the delete key on the Cruxforms images you've downloaded and now need to erase before your boss come to your cubicle (of course another Latin word)

Barbaria1, I would NEVER delete your images. I treasure them as I make plans for your execution!

 

[willowfall]

I am guessing that the Romans started crucifying after seeing the enthusiasm the Carthaginians, civilized long before Rome, had for nailing people up. After all, many a captive Roman groaned and gasped dying breaths nailed to a Carthaginian cross.

The Phoenicians and Greeks (and Persians and ........) were crucifying people long before Rome stopped being a minor village along the Tiber.

That being said we humans have a habit for imitation.

It also seems that we have discovered the same thing many times over. New Age enthusiasts aside the pyramid structure was repeated many times by many different unrelated cultures over many different time periods.

I'm kind of thinking that if the boys hadn't seen it done somewhere before (you know like a stag party from Rome doing the brothel circuit in Athens) it went something like this.

"You know that slavegirl Willow is a real bitch. Yeah we need to teach her a lesson. Right let's hang her from that tree branch by her wrists." 10 minutes later said slavegirl is hanging by her wrists. "You know man, that's kind of boring her just twisting in the wind like that. Yeah it is," another swing of wine, "Hey I got an idea what if we spread her arms apart. Ok, let's try it." Another 10 minutes later "Know we're getting somewhere. Look at how hard she's struggling. I bet those tits are bouncing around, love to see them moving. Well I can fix that." Rip "Nice man, really, nice. Look at her move, don't you wish she was putting in that much effort riding you. I wonder what that would look like." Rip, naked slavegirl. "Nice show let's see how long she can keep moving like that." Attempted swig of empty bottle. "Shit man, next time we need to bring more wine."

I'm guessing I'm pretty close here. Guys haven't changed much in a million years.

kisses

willowfall

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

The Phoenicians and Greeks (and Persians and ........) were crucifying people long before Rome stopped being a minor village along the Tiber.

That being said we humans have a habit for imitation.

It also seems that we have discovered the same thing many times over. New Age enthusiasts aside the pyramid structure was repeated many times by many different unrelated cultures over many different time periods.

I'm kind of thinking that if the boys hadn't seen it done somewhere before (you know like a stag party from Rome doing the brothel circuit in Athens) it went something like this.

"You know that slavegirl Willow is a real bitch. Yeah we need to teach her a lesson. Right let's hang her from that tree branch by her wrists." 10 minutes later said slavegirl is hanging by her wrists. "You know man, that's kind of boring her just twisting in the wind like that. Yeah it is," another swing of wine, "Hey I got an idea what if we spread her arms apart. Ok, let's try it." Another 10 minutes later "Know we're getting somewhere. Look at how hard she's struggling. I bet those tits are bouncing around, love to see them moving. Well I can fix that." Rip "Nice man, really, nice. Look at her move, don't you wish she was putting in that much effort riding you. I wonder what that would look like." Rip, naked slavegirl. "Nice show let's see how long she can keep moving like that." Attempted swig of empty bottle. "Shit man, next time we need to bring more wine."

I'm guessing I'm pretty close here. Guys haven't changed much in a million years.

kisses

willowfall

Willow! You really appreciate us!! Thank you so much!