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Alice, Daughter of Barabbas

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Not to mention that one of those masculine titles, paraclete, could refer to the Holy Spirit, in Orthodox thought, could also be Joseph Smith or Mohammed. Either of those would fulfill Jesus' prophecy of the one who comes after him, but might get you a slightly different friend group.
 
Eulalia said:
Indeed, the Holy Ghost does seem a bit, well, bodiless - the grammatical gender depends of course on what words are used for it, in which language - but whether, or in what sense, it has a sex is the kind of question only curious minds like mine find intriguing (and for me, it's not that I've any real preference or even beliefs about the matter, just fascinated with words)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_the_Holy_Spirit:
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I'd go with the Greek: the "Spirit" is a New Testament thing. The Old Testament types would abhor a "Trinity". The ancient Greek for soul is feminine--at least that's the word Plato puts in Socrates' mouth. (I would hope the "Spirit" can't propagate--one is already too many in my view.)

But then there's Mark Twain on the German language: "a young unmarried girl is neuter, but a turnip is feminine".
 
Wragg said:
So we wonder a great deal within these forums how things might have been if Jesus had been a woman. But what if, instead, Barabbas had been a woman? And one who looked like Alice Kiss?

This thread is in response to a request by @Ramengmawiaaa, I'm not the world's greatest photomanipulator, and nor do I pretend to be, But I'm having fun, and I hope you will, too.

Another apology, this thread is not going to appear at a post every day as I do with my pure stories. I'm not as quick as Madi!
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Wragg said:
Alice was a learning process for me, and now I review the images, I fear some of them are pretty hopeless.

In fact the whole thing was hopeless, the story was poorly told, I was in to much of a hurry.

If anyone thinks I've been a bit quiet over the last little while, correct. Alice deserves so much better.

So this is Alice Barabbas version 2. The plot is essentially the same, but with a bit more filling, some of the better images from the original will be here, but also quite a few new ones. I don't intend to keep you waiting very long, most of the work is now done.

Here goes...
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Wragg said:
Gentle Reader, I have to tell you that sometimes I look back on this thread and cringe.

Firstly, as numerous correspondents have told me, "Alice Barabbas" translates as 'Alice, son of Abbas'. Students of Alice (and there are many) will be aware that she is nobody's son. So please note the change of title!

Secondly, most (not all, maybe) but most of the manips are pretty terrible. Yes,the backgrounds from the 'Jesus' film are limiting, but let's face it, some of them could have been better.

But this tale of a young Jewish woman who was cruelly punished for an act of self-defence, unwittingly stopping a religion in its tracks at the same time, still resonates with me.

So I've had a bit of a tickle around and hopefully improved it just a little tiny bit. ;)
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When you launched the original 'Alice Barabbas' story, five years ago, as a fledgeling photo manip artist, I observed that, 'these are highly original interpretations of Alice images, and they mark an ambitious debut in the illustrated story genre.' Within five months of the conclusion, your skills had developed and you embarked on the first remake of the story, with improvements to the illustrations.

As I noted in 2018, 'as both author and artist, you have produced a sensitive and emotionally charged story, which presents Alice as a credible character, and finally implies a much deeper meaning for her crucifixion than anything previously ascribed to it.' That observation still stands, as five years later, you have presented a third version with refinements to the pictures, plot and writing.

Occasionally I express the desire to rework large quantities of my own art from the early DeviantArt days, but that would be a daunting task, and instead I regret not having more time to create new work. So, for a manip artist to revisit a whole story series not just once, but twice, is an achievement worthy of recognition. We were all impressed by the results the first and second times. The 2023 version is an outstanding showcase for your talents in composite figure construction and several other techniques which make a Wragg manip so distinctive.

Congratulations Wragg! - and now I fear that 'The Lady Jasmine' may be subjected to a similar transformation? :devil:
 
Eulalia said:
:risas3:

That's what you get with an all-male Trinity. If only they'd listened to that lassie Wisdom who was up there with GTF when he was just getting started on the project - no oceans, mountains, any stuff like that - and when they had been created, she enjoyed being with the sons of men ... well, I suppose that's when she started to go off the rails ...

time to get together a feminist trinity - Sophia (Wisdom), Psyche (the Spirit) and the BVM :)
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I am not a theologian - far from that, not even a believer.
But I have always perceived the Holy Spirit as the female element in the Holy Trinity, balancing the brute masculinity of God The Father. Also, God's consience, so to say (something, the god of the Old Testament is completely lacking).
 
Theology is guesswork. Most of the "scriptures" are also embellishments. Jesus does talk about the "Spirit", and the "Spirit" comes like a wind in Acts. I don't read anything in that the indicates a gender--there are "tongues of fire". You cannot trust anything Luke says, though. He embellishes things so much. It is noteworthy that Jesus' mother (the BVM) was present and got her own "tongue of fire" when the Spirit came, according to Luke. After that, she just disappears.
Women did apparently play a major role in the early church, but there is great controversy over whether there was a "matriarchy" replaced by a "patriarchy" (i.e., bishops).
There is a gospel of Mary Magdalene, and the apostles denigrate her and she talks back. There is also an "Acts of Paul and Thecla", in which Thecla is the star preacher. Both of these are fairly early, certainly before Augustine.
Lots of politics, lots of disagreement, lots of ambiguity. It appears to me that "Christianity" isn't really one thing---there are so many differences on important matters (like the Eucharist). It sounds like politics won out over "I am with you all days, even until the end of the age". The "end of the age" is way overdue, by the way, based on Jesus' prophesies.
 
Eulalia said:
The word used in the NT is actually πνεῦμα 'pneuma', which is of course 'breath' - grammatically neuter.
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True! "Ψυχή" means the "soul" both in Plato's works and NT. "Πνεύμα" is the "Spirit". "Breath" has nothing to do with the "Spirit" in ancient Greek (and modern as well) but it' easy to be confused even among Greek speakers.
 
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PeterVl said:
True! "Ψυχή" means the "soul" both in Plato's works and NT.
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I don't think Ψυχή occurs in the NT, though it was certainly an important word for Plato, and in Platonic philosophy - which might be a reason why Christian writers, at least at first, avoided it. πνεῦμα was used in the Septuagint to translate רוּחַ, rūaḥ, which I think has the same sense of 'breath', a Hebrew rather than Hellenic concept of 'spirit'.
 
Eulalia said:
I don't think Ψυχή occurs in the NT, though it was certainly an important word for Plato, and in Platonic philosophy - which might be a reason why Christian writers, at least at first, avoided it. πνεῦμα was used in the Septuagint to translate רוּחַ, rūaḥ, which I think has the same sense of 'breath', a Hebrew rather than Hellenic concept of 'spirit'.
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It does, in Saint Paul's 1 Corinthians 15 - 45 "εγενετο.... ψυχην ζωσαν ο εσχατος αδαμ εις πνευμα ζωοποιουν" which is badly translated here as "The first man, Adam, became a living person..."

It's a big subject though, the confusion between "Ζωή" (life) and "Ψυχή" in the Greek language spoken back then -which is deferent from the ancient Greek- is common. It's believed that "ζωή" and "Ψυχή" is the same thing in NT.
 
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PeterVl said:
It does, in Saint Paul's 1 Corinthians 15 - 45 "εγενετο.... ψυχην ζωσαν ο εσχατος αδαμ εις πνευμα ζωοποιουν" which is badly translated here as "The first man, Adam, became a living person..."

It's a big subject though, the confusion between "Ζωή" (life) and "Ψυχή" in the Greek language spoken back then -which is deferent from the ancient Greek- is common. It's believed that "ζωή" and "Ψυχή" is the same thing in NT.
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Loxuru said:
That happens, when you start writing alternate history! :icon_writing: ;)
With Saint Wraggus as the first pope, the papal seat would soon be established in Cruxton Abbey, where it still is today!:angel2:
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These very academic posts have me rejoicing the fact that I’m agnostic.
 
Loxuru said:
That happens, when you start writing alternate history! :icon_writing: ;)
With Saint Wraggus as the first pope, the papal seat would soon be established in Cruxton Abbey, where it still is today!:angel2:
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Cruxton Basilica, surely?

"You are Wraggus, and upon this rag I will build my church"

Hmm, doesn't sound quite as stable.
 
justarandomguy said:
I dunno you, but I may think this is the hero of the story

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Long life to the knife
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You have a point! The 'Holy Knife', will become one of the most important relics in the new religion. It will be kept by the Wragg family in a sumptuously ornamented golden shrine (although the ignorant scullery maid Barbaria sometimes uses it to peel vegetables). :facepalm:

Of course, besides Cruxton Abbey/Basilica, many kings, emperors, prince-bishops and other rulers will claim to have 'The Real Knife' under their protection. During a crusade, it will miraculously be unearthed under a church floor in Antiochia Nevertheless, many still think the original never left Jerusalem.
 
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