Roman Crucifixion

[admihoek]

evil as always

 

[Yupar]

some other

i like that 2nd pic crucified in front of city gate..

 

[shevak2006]

These are part of a longer series of beautiful images of crucified women,​

'les femmes heretiques', by Winkler and Noah at:​

http://www.winkler-noah.it/178194/les-femmes-heretiques​

I think we've seen them before, but thanks allan for reminding us about them!​

They are very erotic stylized crucifixions -- too bad the girls aren't actually hanging and fully naked. They are incredibly lovely. I know I'm missing the point the artist is trying to make. Perhaps I'd understand if I read Italian. Nonetheless, very erotic. And Tree makes a good point that being nailed (though the hands, presumably, not the wrists) to a short cross so one can stand could be a source of punishment and not execution. As a punishment the victim could probably avoid serious damage to her hands if the nails were not large -- though it woulf hurt like hell!

 

[Eulalia]

As a punishment the victim could probably avoid serious damage to her hands if the nails were not large -- though it would hurt like hell!

Yes it would be an aggravated form of Punishment by Exposure, with all the agony of heat, cold, thirst, biting insects, sheer panic, etc., plus nails through her hands. I've read that people in the Pillory sometimes had their ears nailed to the wood, similar principle though less aesthetically pleasing (for the spectators) than "standing Crucifixion".

 

[shevak2006]

Yes it would be an aggravated form of Punishment by Exposure, with all the agony of heat, cold, thirst, biting insects, sheer panic, etc., plus nails through her hands. I've read that people in the Pillory sometimes had their ears nailed to the wood, similar principle though less aesthetically pleasing (for the spectators) than "standing Crucifixion".

I've had some thoughts in my head of a type of society where crucifixion is used as corporal punishment as well as death. Instead of jail time or paying a financial penalty a person would be sentended to "time on the cross". A woman (why is it always a woman??? ) convicted of a misdemeanor would be sentenced to, say, a six-hour crucifixion in the town sqaure. She'd be naked, of course, and bound to a cross by experts so she'd suffer no permamnent damage. However, while on the cross she'd be hanging in considerable pain, fully exposed to public view and humilation. After her time was up she 'd be taken down and released. How a naked woman in serious pain from crucifixion would get home would be left up to her to figure out, or arrange ahead of time. Repeat offenders would get a longer crucifixion the next time, say 12 hours (2x as long as the first). A third offense would get you crucified for 24 hours. Beyond that you'd be executed by being nailed to a cross. Those crucified for a certain number of hours as corporal punishment might find themselves hanging next to someone nailed for execution.

Just some random thoughts. Grist for a possible story...

 

[CorPas]

It was a large scale practice during almost thousand years and Roman crucifixion still has a strong influence by its extreme psychological effects. Therefore, many modern people are interested to experience the real significance of crucifixion.

It involved intense and prolonged pain and extreme humiliation of a fully naked victim, completely on display, immobilized with widespread arms. The victim had to undergo the terrifying process of permanent fixation to the cross with loss of all control and dignity. This resulted in a horrible torture, while no one needed to to do anything more. The victim was in total despair, often for a very long time, degraded to a totally helpless object, all bodily functions fully visible, forced to move up and down to reduce pain and to be able to breath, undergoing an unimaginable suffering, as every movement was accompanied by unbearable pain. In addition, the victim would realize that being attached to the cross was totally irrversible as well.
It was a complete torturous degradation of a naked victim, condemned to live for a up to a few days in total agony, despair and suffering.

On the other hand, the spectators would often be impressed. The crucifixion provided great entertainment: the victim dancing, moving, trying to save life by all means, probably also by begging, pleading, crying, cursing and any other means. But still totally powerless, degraded to an object on display, only waiting for death. The whole performance would be strongly erotically loaded, as the victim is helplessly totally exposed with genitals and all other body parts fully visible to everyone. Deterrence would be maximal but likely a strange attraction was also present.

This is what actually remains up till today. The extremely efficient and technically simple lethal practice of the Romans is still having a strange attraction.

There are many artists who are inspired by this practice. The Jedakk drawings on this forum are historically likely highly accurate. They comply with many facts and theories and simply, it could not have been much different than shown and described in such accounts.

There will only be one major difference.
It appears from all sources that this punishment was explicitly used for defeated warriors against Rome, insubordinate or rebellious slaves, traitors of the Roman empire and so on. Only these people underwent this treatment but here have been quite a lot of such victims, a reliable estimation for the thousand years of the Eastern Roman kingdom and empire reach the number of 1 million. That means, 1000 each year, for 10 centuries. In the hey day of the empire it obviously was much higher every year, a single campaign like the Gladiator War of Spartacus resulting in 6000 crucifxions alone.
The difference must be that these crucifixions most likely involved men only (warriors, rebels, traitors, state enemies). Attractive female slaves as so often shown in the artistic renderings probably served other useful purposes and were not so easily destroyed by crucifixion. Maybe only the persecution of the Christians in the second and third centuries could have led to a significant number of women executed in this way (which is directly referring to their faith as well...) but even this remains doubtful in case of a status as Roman citizens.

Still, for modern humans the cruxifixion practice learns a lot about the thin line between human suffering and humiliation and excitement and arousal. Many people would love to be exposed fully naked, helplessly being on display, totally immobilized and degraded. Those who experienced it know that is a very special feeling indeed. So, we must use history for our own needs today.

I am interested to hear in what ways the Raman practice is still inspiring to anyone! To have a better idea, I do add some of Jedakk great pics found on this site, surely explaining all the theories and very stmulating to study in detail anyway! He is a great artist and a psychologist as well.

 

[mp5stab]

It's almost guaranteed that more men were crucified than women, perhaps in extremely lopsided ratios; it seems through much of history men were seen as more expendable. At the forum, though, we have been trying to close that gender gap by showing the reciprocal, several crucified women for every crucified man. Perhaps in another several hundred years of art, we will have closed the gap.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

There will only be one major difference.
It appears from all sources that this punishment was explicitly used for defeated warriors against Rome, insubordinate or rebellious slaves, traitors of the Roman empire and so on. Only these people underwent this treatment but here have been quite a lot of such victims, a reliable estimation for the thousand years of the Eastern Roman kingdom and empire reach the number of 1 million. That means, 1000 each year, for 10 centuries. In the hey day of the empire it obviously was much higher every year, a single campaign like the Gladiator War of Spartacus resulting in 6000 crucifxions alone.
The difference must be that these crucifixions most likely involved men only (warriors, rebels, traitors, state enemies). Attractive female slaves as so often shown in the artistic renderings probably served other useful purposes and were not so easily destroyed by crucifixion. Maybe only the persecution of the Christians in the second and third centuries could have led to a significant number of women executed in this way (which is directly referring to their faith as well...) but even this remains doubtful in case of a status as Roman citizens.

Still, for modern humans the cruxifixion practice learns a lot about the thin line between human suffering and humiliation and excitement and arousal. Many people would love to be exposed fully naked, helplessly being on display, totally immobilized and degraded. Those who experienced it know that is a very special feeling indeed. So, we must use history for our own needs today.

I am interested to hear in what ways the Raman practice is still inspiring to anyone! To have a better idea, I do add some of Jedakk great pics found on this site, surely explaining all the theories and very stmulating to study in detail anyway! He is a great artist and a psychologist as well.

Jedakk the psychologist! LOL! Reminds me of the time Jethro on the old 60s Beverley Hillbillies tv show said he was going to open a business doing psychiatry and fish cleaning, because all psychiatrists did was list to folks talk, and you could clean fish while you were doing that.

But seriously, I do think a lot about the psychological aspects of crucifixion and try to get inside of the heads of each person involved. To me, the psychological part is as interesting as the superficial things.

As far as women being crucified in ancient times, we know of some instances where it's mentioned, but those are only notable ones, like the freedwoman Ide, whom the Emperor Tiberius seemed to have no second thoughts about crucifying, and it's mentioned that the 400 slaves in the household of Pedanius Secundus who were crucified included both sexes, young and old. Male or female, the ones we know about are probably a very small percentage of the hundreds of thousands that must have ended up on crosses.

 

[Loxuru]

That means, 1000 each year, for 10 centuries. In the hey day of the empire it obviously was much higher every year,

Just a calculation. Thousand crucifixions each year means an average of 2,7 per day. Two or three crucifixions per day throughout the entire, empire seems reasonable, considering that capital punishment was applied for minor crimes those days. So, you are right, there were probably more.

Just to compare the figures. It is estimated that, during WWII, about 15000 German soldiers have been executed for desertion. That is an average of about ten per day all over the duration of the war. Likely, there will have been more near the end of the war, when the German armed forces collapsed and special military police units where active to catch real and alledged deserters. But for instance, there are records of entire Luftwaffe bomber crews that have been executed by firing squad in 1940, because they refused to make another raid to England when the losses in the Battle of Britain were getting dramatic.

The same number (about 15000) applies for executions by the guillotine in the Third Reich during the same period.

Meanwhile, during WWII, the Red Army has executed about 158000 soldiers for desertion, meaning about 100 per day.

These figures apply only to a 5-year period of war. One can easily find out that, over the centuries, millions of people must have been executed that way, if there were "only" ten crucifixions per day in the entire empire.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

One can easily find out that, over the centuries, millions of people must have been executed that way, if there were "only" ten crucifixions per day in the entire empire.

I agree. I always go way on the conservative side and say "hundreds of thousands", but the number must actually have been in the millions. After all, looking at the extents of the Roman world throughout the time that crucifixion was its standard means of capital punishment, and considering how many thousands of cities and towns there were within it, all with criminals to be punished, the numbers could be mind-boggling.

Which is why, to me, it is so easy to come up with another crucifixion story. There are millions of them.

 

[Barbaria1]

Just a calculation. Thousand crucifixions each year means an average of 2,7 per day. Two or three crucifixions per day throughout the entire, empire seems reasonable, considering that capital punishment was applied for minor crimes those days. So, you are right, there were probably more.

Just to compare the figures. It is estimated that, during WWII, about 15000 German soldiers have been executed for desertion. That is an average of about ten per day all over the duration of the war. Likely, there will have been more near the end of the war, when the German armed forces collapsed and special military police units where active to catch real and alledged deserters. But for instance, there are records of entire Luftwaffe bomber crews that have been executed by firing squad in 1940, because they refused to make another raid to England when the losses in the Battle of Britain were getting dramatic.

The same number (about 15000) applies for executions by the guillotine in the Third Reich during the same period.

Meanwhile, during WWII, the Red Army has executed about 158000 soldiers for desertion, meaning about 100 per day.

These figures apply only to a 5-year period of war. One can easily find out that, over the centuries, millions of people must have been executed that way, if there were "only" ten crucifixions per day in the entire empire.

Wow...puts things in perspective ... and rather shocking too.

 

[Primus pilus]

The web site http://necrometrics.com/romestat.htm has some estimates of the numbers of casulties through Rome's various wars along with estimates of political executions as well as deaths amongst gladiators.

No attempt is made to split deaths through war into direct casualties and prisoners executed nor in any summary to split executions between crucifixion and other methods. The only specific reference to numbers crucified follows the Spartacus revolt.

The site uses the writings of Suetonius to estimate the political executions among the Julio-Claudian Emperors as Tiberius (14-37 CE) 9,500, Caligula (37-41 CE) 9,000, Claudius (41-54 CE) 2900 and Nero (54-68 CE) 5,750.

The site doesn't seem to estimate executions of mere criminals though many of these are included among gladiatorial deaths. Estimates of the deaths among gladiators over the period 264 BCE to 435 CE amount to over 3,500,000.

Amongst the various slave revolts the site suggests:

• Slave Revolts (133 BCE):
  • Executions: 150 (Rome) + 450 (Minturnae) + 4,000 (Sinuessa) = 4,600
• 7,000 crucified after Spartacus fell. (71 BCE)
• 400 slaves executed in retaliation for the murder of Pedanius Secundus. (61 CE)
• 30,000 runaways captured during Augustus's reign. All reclaimed or crucified.

At its peak the population of the Roman Empire was (there are many estimates published) between 40 and 60 million.

Now Pp is not a demographer but, if all the deaths in wars etc are factored in then too high an execution rate would never have seen the population reach those levels even with the average woman giving birth to 6 - 8 children. The chances of living beyond 5 years of age were pretty low and, of those who did make it beyond 5 years, only half made it to 50.

 

[Eulalia]

The chances of living beyond 5 years of age were pretty low and, of those who did make it beyond 5 years, only half made it to 50.

The other half were crucified?

Seriously, another factor to remember was the widespread
and more or less sanctioned, practice of exposing unwanted infants at birth -
especially girls, but boys too, if the parents were too poor to feed them,
or they were an 'embarrassment'.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

The other half were crucified?

Seriously, another factor to remember was the widespread
and more or less sanctioned, practice of exposing unwanted infants at birth -
especially girls, but boys too, if the parents were too poor to feed them,
or they were an 'embarrassment'.

That thing about exposing infants occurred to me, too.

In toying around with the numbers, if we think about a one-year slice of time during the height of the Roman Empire, when the population was at least 40,000,000 people, and if there were as many as ten crucifixions per day throughout the empire, then the chances of any person being crucified during that one-year period were a little less than one in ten thousand. Ten per day, 3,650 people per year, is a very small percentage of 40,000,000 people, inconsequential compared with all of the other things that took lives back then - disease, war, etc.

According to Raphael Hollingshed, an English chronicler who died in 1580, there were 72,000 people executed during the 38-year reign of Henry VIII when the population of England was about 2,000,000, which would have been about 2.6 per hundred people in any year, 5 per day on average. A lot of people take the 72,000 figure as an exaggeration, but if you accept it, then there were 260 times as many people executed in England per capita per year as there were crucified during the height of the Roman Empire.

About all we can say for sure is that crucifixion was pretty common in the large cities of the Empire, such as Rome itself. The Roman population, citizens or not, were familiar with it. Plautus's characters joked about it in the second century BC. Seneca described seeing many people crucified at a time, Cicero gave a speech talking about how awful it was, but everyone accepted it as status quo, a necessary means of punishment to set an example for others inclined to break the law.

 

[Marcius]

About all we can say for sure is that crucifixion was pretty common in the large cities of the Empire, such as Rome itself. The Roman population, citizens or not, were familiar with it.

Also more than common after a revolt, of which there were so many even in the relatively quiet 2nd century. As an aside, your Balbus who observed/participated in the Pedanius-, Boudica- and Titus-related executions (by the way, was he supposed to go from a urban cohort to a centurionate in the legions? If Balbus was serving in urban cohorts, Pedanius had been his superior as the urban prefect [governor/police chief/chief judge] of Rome.) must have seen more crucifixions than the great majority of Romans then living.

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

Also more than common after a revolt, of which there were so many even in the relatively quiet 2nd century. As an aside, your Balbus who observed/participated in the Pedanius-, Boudica- and Titus-related executions (by the way, was he supposed to go from a urban cohort to a centurionate in the legions? If Balbus was serving in urban cohorts, Pedanius had been his superior as the urban prefect [governor/police chief/chief judge] of Rome.) must have seen more crucifixions than the great majority of Romans then living.

You know, I didn't make that connection with Pedanius Secundus and the urban cohorts. Yes, Balbus somehow made that transition to the legions, but we don't know how. It's not likely that it would have been family influence since his mother ran a brothel - which Balbus converted into his ergastulum for housing the condemned waiting to be crucified.

Yes, he would have not only seen, but participated in more crucifixions than just about anyone. He had a lot of opportunity to observe and learn what worked and what didn't, becoming an expert on maximizing the punishment and making his victims last as long as possible. Probably not a guy you'd want to hang out with.

 

[Marcius]

You know, I didn't make that connection with Pedanius Secundus and the urban cohorts. Yes, Balbus somehow made that transition to the legions, but we don't know how. It's not likely that it would have been family influence since his mother ran a brothel - which Balbus converted into his ergastulum for housing the condemned waiting to be crucified.

I'm not sure, but I think it wasn't exceptional for a urban cohort legionary to get promoted to a centurion in the legions. It's just that in the setting of Neronian Rome his options are limited to a praetorian, a urban cohort legionary or a classiarius (sorta marine, the naval guys who served in Rome; later Nero tried to raise two legions out of sailors). The second option appears most attractive.

 

[geolier]

It was a large scale practice during almost thousand years and Roman crucifixion still has a strong influence by its extreme psychological effects. Therefore, many modern people are interested to experience the real significance of crucifixion.

It involved intense and prolonged pain and extreme humiliation of a fully naked victim, completely on display, immobilized with widespread arms. The victim had to undergo the terrifying process of permanent fixation to the cross with loss of all control and dignity. This resulted in a horrible torture, while no one needed to to do anything more. The victim was in total despair, often for a very long time, degraded to a totally helpless object, all bodily functions fully visible, forced to move up and down to reduce pain and to be able to breath, undergoing an unimaginable suffering, as every movement was accompanied by unbearable pain. In addition, the victim would realize that being attached to the cross was totally irrversible as well.
It was a complete torturous degradation of a naked victim, condemned to live for a up to a few days in total agony, despair and suffering.

On the other hand, the spectators would often be impressed. The crucifixion provided great entertainment: the victim dancing, moving, trying to save life by all means, probably also by begging, pleading, crying, cursing and any other means. But still totally powerless, degraded to an object on display, only waiting for death. The whole performance would be strongly erotically loaded, as the victim is helplessly totally exposed with genitals and all other body parts fully visible to everyone. Deterrence would be maximal but likely a strange attraction was also present.

This is what actually remains up till today. The extremely efficient and technically simple lethal practice of the Romans is still having a strange attraction.

There are many artists who are inspired by this practice. The Jedakk drawings on this forum are historically likely highly accurate. They comply with many facts and theories and simply, it could not have been much different than shown and described in such accounts.

There will only be one major difference.
It appears from all sources that this punishment was explicitly used for defeated warriors against Rome, insubordinate or rebellious slaves, traitors of the Roman empire and so on. Only these people underwent this treatment but here have been quite a lot of such victims, a reliable estimation for the thousand years of the Eastern Roman kingdom and empire reach the number of 1 million. That means, 1000 each year, for 10 centuries. In the hey day of the empire it obviously was much higher every year, a single campaign like the Gladiator War of Spartacus resulting in 6000 crucifxions alone.
The difference must be that these crucifixions most likely involved men only (warriors, rebels, traitors, state enemies). Attractive female slaves as so often shown in the artistic renderings probably served other useful purposes and were not so easily destroyed by crucifixion. Maybe only the persecution of the Christians in the second and third centuries could have led to a significant number of women executed in this way (which is directly referring to their faith as well...) but even this remains doubtful in case of a status as Roman citizens.

Still, for modern humans the cruxifixion practice learns a lot about the thin line between human suffering and humiliation and excitement and arousal. Many people would love to be exposed fully naked, helplessly being on display, totally immobilized and degraded. Those who experienced it know that is a very special feeling indeed. So, we must use history for our own needs today.

I am interested to hear in what ways the Raman practice is still inspiring to anyone! To have a better idea, I do add some of Jedakk great pics found on this site, surely explaining all the theories and very stmulating to study in detail anyway! He is a great artist and a psychologist as well.

seems that the lady in red really enjoys what she sees.......

 

[Deleted member jedakk]

seems that the lady in red really enjoys what she sees.......

That's part of the story "The Serpent's Eye" - the slave on the cross, Publius, raped her and beat her up before trying to escape. She's a prostitute, which is why she is dressed that way, marketing herself. So yes, she's enjoying the opportunity to heap abuse on Publius as he struggles in agony. If they'd let her, she'd gladly beat his balls with a cane until they swelled to the size of tennis balls.

 

[Loxuru]

I am interested to hear in what ways the Raman practice is still inspiring to anyone!

It is Obvious that Roman practice still inspires, as it is the most important source of information about this practice and the technique and methods involved. Because crucifixion was not only an execution method, but also a display of what we would call now 'state power', intended to scare, the condemned were subjected to a long public agony and humiliation. Very inspiring stuff for building stories around, set in Roman times as well in a fictional today's world.