-
Sign up or login, and you'll have full access to opportunities of forum.
Yeah. Right.
- Thread starter apostate630
- Start date
Ed-M
Assistant executioner
Simcha Jacobovici? Didn't he join in a venture with Titanic director Cameron in hawking the Jesus Family Tomb? These nails are too short and too thin for any crucifixion let alone, The Crucifiction. Unless, of course, these are fragments and the crucified person was sitting or riding on his cross!
Simcha is also of The Naked Archaeologist fame. For an interesting take on his opinions concerning a Romanised Jewish tomb, you may watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBuORdrI-E When he first enters the tomb with his Italian guide he says it's not a Christian tomb and later on he sees Christian symbols in an obviously NON-Christian motif: a dolphin holding a trident, and Simcha sees a Christian fish and a sign of The Cross or two! Arrrrghhh!!!
Simcha is also of The Naked Archaeologist fame. For an interesting take on his opinions concerning a Romanised Jewish tomb, you may watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBuORdrI-E When he first enters the tomb with his Italian guide he says it's not a Christian tomb and later on he sees Christian symbols in an obviously NON-Christian motif: a dolphin holding a trident, and Simcha sees a Christian fish and a sign of The Cross or two! Arrrrghhh!!!
Naraku
Draconarius
Yeah, that's the guy. His Naked Archaeologist shows are very amusing & I think he sometimes raises interesting points. But, like most biblical archaeologists, he jumps to extreme conclusions based on the flimsiest of evidence. In this case, I'm afraid he's gone way out on a very short nail. The nails aren't anywhere near long enough to even go through a man's wrist, much less penetrate wood deeply enough to support his weight. He can't argue that the nails are short because they broke, because he also claims the points were bent to keep them from being pulled out. It's most likely that they were used in a casket or some other wooden structure in the tomb. This really isn't any different from a Medieval pilgrim finding an old piece of wood in Jerusalem & bringing it home as a "piece of the true cross". :-BEd-M said:
Hammerlock
Executioner
I agree. Why would Caiaphus even want the nails from Jesus' crucifixion? What possible reason would he want them in his tomb? This is yellow journalism at it's best--jump to a conclusion and then trumpet it all over the world. It's just a way to get attention. There is absolutely no eveidence that these are even crucifixion nails.
Crux-Emperor Baracus X
Rectidolor
Err Guys,without sounding too sarcastic,but hey,it's EASTER !!
This shit comes up every year,i just wish i could pop into my Bakery workplace and announce "No more Hot Cross Buns,Easter's cancelled,they've found the Body !!" :-
)
Cheers Baracus
This shit comes up every year,i just wish i could pop into my Bakery workplace and announce "No more Hot Cross Buns,Easter's cancelled,they've found the Body !!" :-
) Cheers Baracus
I avoid The Naked Archaeologist TV shows because he exaggerates to the point where he has lost all creditability with me and I believe he is one of the group who claim to have found the ossuary (Bone box carved from stone.) with Christ's name on it. The bones were turned over the Rabbis for burial. In so far as the nails are concerned I agree that enough pieces of the true cross and nails have been found to build a city.
On the Foundation they mentioned the Spear of Longinus, but that was another show on another channel, a spear point called "The spear of Destiny" resides in a museum in Vienna, Austria. This alleged relic once in the care of the Holly Roman Emperors is now considered to be a national treasure in Austria and is still held to be sacred. The spear point was broken and at some point in Medieval History was repaired and it contains a nail that has been Carbon Dated to circa Zero AD.
~x(
Helmut
PS: Don't want to agitate, but his name couldn't have been J.C.
On the Foundation they mentioned the Spear of Longinus, but that was another show on another channel, a spear point called "The spear of Destiny" resides in a museum in Vienna, Austria. This alleged relic once in the care of the Holly Roman Emperors is now considered to be a national treasure in Austria and is still held to be sacred. The spear point was broken and at some point in Medieval History was repaired and it contains a nail that has been Carbon Dated to circa Zero AD.
~x(
Helmut
PS: Don't want to agitate, but his name couldn't have been J.C.
Naraku
Draconarius
There are actually 4 alleged Spears of Destiny. One is int the Vatican, one in Armenia, one in Krakow & one in Vienna. The one is Vienna has been test - not by carbon dating, which only works on organic material, but by chemical methods - and found to date from about the VII century. The nail used as a pin could not be tested but is believed to be consistent in size & shape with a 1st century Roman nail. Of course, that doesn't prove it was a nail, much less a nail from the crucifixion.helmut said:
Other "nails from the crucifixion" include the one said to have been used to form a one centimeter band in Iron Crown of Lombardy used to crown Holy Roman Emperors & King of Italy & now in the Cathedral of Monza. There's another nail in the Cathedrals of Milan, Trier, Germany & Carpentras, France & the Basilica of Santa Croce in Rome.
That's six nails. Now Jacobovici has two more, making eight. How many nails do you need to crucify one man? :-?
Hammerlock
Executioner
Sorry, guys--you can only carbon date something that is organic, such as wood or vegetable remains, or bones, etc.. You absolutely cannot carbon-date iron.
Ed-M
Assistant executioner
You don't need any if you use rope! Otherwise, just four of proper length and thickness! Like the one stuck in that kid's heel - 4 1/2 inches long, 3/8 inch thick. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think ANY of the eight are long enough or thick enough.Naraku said:
Yet idiots will claim, and gullible people will believe, that these nails ~whichever of the eight~ were used to crucify Jee-sus. ~x(
Hammerlock
Executioner
That's true. I've had a life-long passion for archaeology and hasve studied it intensely, so I'm pretty familiar with carbon dating. If they carbon-dated the bones in the ossuary, they could reasonably infer that the nails date from that time, since they were in the ossuary with the bones. BUT--these are not crucifixion nails. They're too small, too short, of uncertain origin, and no one can possibly state with conviction that they are nails from Jesus' crucifixion--where's the proof? The scientific community pretty much scoffs at this "discovery," and so do I.
Well....Hammerlock said:
This is a good discussion, I'm enjoying it.
Now what about this? http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/03 ... -0305.html
It seems they are carbon daring Iron, as I remembered from the show on the Spear of Destiny"
Now back to the pix I'm making,
Helmut
Hammerlock
Executioner
Notice, about halfway down the page, the phrase: "...for a radiocarbon date on iron to be meaningful, the carbon extracted from the iron-based material must be from biomass contemporaneous with original manufacture." This means that they are not carbon-dating the iron itself, but the biomass clinging to it--organic material, in other words. You simply can't carbon-date iron by itself. You can only radiocarbon date what was once living material, and in this case they're talking about once-living material adhering to the iron. And even then, it's only a meaningful date if the organic material dates from the same time as the iron was manufactured. There are many things that can throw off a radiocarbon date--usually some type of treatment that has been deliberately or inadvertently applied to the iron at a later date.
I stand by my original statement: You can't carbon-date iron.
And by the way, why would Caiphas be even remotely interested in owning the nails from Jesus' crucifixion? Only the Romans attached any significance to the supernatural powers of a used crucifixion nail--a Jew like Caiphas would shy away from such items as ritually unclean. They came from a dead person, and contact with them would render one unclean and require a long and costly purification ritual. Caiaphas, like any self-respecting first-century Jew, would shudder at the prospect of ritual contamination from such contact.
No, friends, the nails are not fromJesus' crucifixion. They most likely were from some kind of box or container that has long since rotted away.
I stand by my original statement: You can't carbon-date iron.
And by the way, why would Caiphas be even remotely interested in owning the nails from Jesus' crucifixion? Only the Romans attached any significance to the supernatural powers of a used crucifixion nail--a Jew like Caiphas would shy away from such items as ritually unclean. They came from a dead person, and contact with them would render one unclean and require a long and costly purification ritual. Caiaphas, like any self-respecting first-century Jew, would shudder at the prospect of ritual contamination from such contact.
No, friends, the nails are not fromJesus' crucifixion. They most likely were from some kind of box or container that has long since rotted away.
helmut said:
But when he found them, shouldn't have Jacobovici's face melted or head exploded?
This matter has furnished me some thin amusement. But I still wish archeology would come up with definitive remains of a crucifixion victim.
J
Julia
Guest
apostate630 said:
The horrible find below, discovered in 1968, seems to be definitive.
It's known as "The heel bone of Yehohanan ben Hagkol".
By the way, some time ago I've seen this piece in an exhibition.
Suddenly, without any warning, I noticed it,
with the result that I became seriously terrified.
And of course there was not the smallest bit of an arousal, quite on the contrary.
Sometimes reality can be a real "turn off" ...
But in the meantime I luckily have recovered from the shock, obviously ...
Best regards,
Julia
