Age span

[Reb]

Personally I think the kernel of truth around which the legend of St. Agnes grew is that circa 300 CE Roman authorities had an adolescent girl raped and murdered. All subsequent details were invented.

Kind of an erotic fantasy killer.

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

My understanding is that there is a maximum age limit, which is reset every year at one year less than my own...

You are safe now, Windar. The ones setting the age can't count over 80.

 

[Reb]

----
We're all free to believe what we want about myths, legends, and lore. I haven't looked into the life of St Agnes; I only know devout Catholics have named countless babies after her.
St Nicholas, Santa Claus, a kindly Turkish Bishop, used to give gifts to children; so it's easy to see how his legend got started, augmented in the US by Clement Clarke Moore's 19th Century poem many of us were raised on. T'was the Night Before Christmas.

Apparently, St Christopher never existed at all. St Sebastian's bound and arrow-pierced nude or semi-nude image, a favorite of gay and/or sadistic and/or devout painters, is probably second only to the Crucifixion of Jesus in terms of its popularity. Both these stories have credible evidence for their veracity; but many people don't realize Sebastian survived his ordeal.

The Roman Catholic Church's recently exposed aptitude and proficiency at lying has raised issues in recent years. Catholics are shocked to learn that mention of Peter the Apostle's presence in Rome is centuries late: "Peter visited Rome and, tarrying there, was crucified." Ancient lists always show Linus as the first Bishop of Rome. Even reviewing the first dozen or so of the earliest bishops of Rome, well past Peter's believable lifespan, there is no mention of Peter. The Pope, as Bishop of Rome, claims his papal title as successor of the Apostle Peter as Bishop of Rome; but it is apparent Peter was never the Bishop of Rome. It's likely he was never there.
No pope attended the Council of Nicea, called and presided-over by the Emperor Constantine, where such basic articles of Christian faith as the Virgin birth, the divinity and humanity of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and Mary, as Mother of God (the source of Jesus' humanity, not his divinity). The pope did send a representative, who was accorded no special deference. Bishops from Britain and France attended, but not the Bishop of Rome. Well-educated Catholics will argue you into the ground on these two points in particular; I've found that even being shown historical Catholic records often does no good; but I remember defending the existence of Santa Claus to a big fourth grader, until Mama finally admitted it was a fairy tale.

I'd like to see a Santa Claus, naked, dripping pre-cum, and crucified and/or impaled, all bloodied and abused. Wouldn't someone like to start a myth, "The Truth About Santa Claus."
--Reb

 

[cynthia the inocent]

----
We're all free to believe what we want about myths, legends, and lore. I haven't looked into the life of St Agnes; I only know devout Catholics have named countless babies after her.
St Nicholas, Santa Claus, a kindly Turkish Bishop, used to give gifts to children; so it's easy to see how his legend got started, augmented in the US by Clement Clarke Moore's 19th Century poem many of us were raised on. T'was the Night Before Christmas.

Apparently, St Christopher never existed at all. St Sebastian's bound and arrow-pierced nude or semi-nude image, a favorite of gay and/or sadistic and/or devout painters, is probably second only to the Crucifixion of Jesus in terms of its popularity. Both these stories have credible evidence for their veracity; but many people don't realize Sebastian survived his ordeal.

The Roman Catholic Church's recently exposed aptitude and proficiency at lying has raised issues in recent years. Catholics are shocked to learn that mention of Peter the Apostle's presence in Rome is centuries late: "Peter visited Rome and, tarrying there, was crucified." Ancient lists always show Linus as the first Bishop of Rome. Even reviewing the first dozen or so of the earliest bishops of Rome, well past Peter's believable lifespan, there is no mention of Peter. The Pope, as Bishop of Rome, claims his papal title as successor of the Apostle Peter as Bishop of Rome; but it is apparent Peter was never the Bishop of Rome. It's likely he was never there.
No pope attended the Council of Nicea, called and presided-over by the Emperor Constantine, where such basic articles of Christian faith as the Virgin birth, the divinity and humanity of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and Mary, as Mother of God (the source of Jesus' humanity, not his divinity). The pope did send a representative, who was accorded no special deference. Bishops from Britain and France attended, but not the Bishop of Rome. Well-educated Catholics will argue you into the ground on these two points in particular; I've found that even being shown historical Catholic records often does no good; but I remember defending the existence of Santa Claus to a big fourth grader, until Mama finally admitted it was a fairy tale.

I'd like to see a Santa Claus, naked, dripping pre-cum, and crucified and/or impaled, all bloodied and abused. Wouldn't someone like to start a myth, "The Truth About Santa Claus."
--Reb

I am so thankful that I was not raised in a parochial school. Many of my friends and neighbors were and they shared the horror stories of sadistic nuns. Small wonder their adult lives are laced with quilt perceived or imagined

 

[Reb]

Without sarcasm.
In Rome, ALL the slaves were crucified when the master was murdered. "ALL" includes older and younger ..., but ..., the civilized norms (and the laws of today) do not allow to show minors or elders. (I am very happy about that prohibition/norm).

-----
About elders: At 76, I believe I must qualify as elderly. I acknowledge my body is not as toned and my mind not as sharp as it was when I was 21; but I still love to be crucified and to crucify others, usually gay males, but I have also crucified women whose need to be crucified often is as strong as any man's.
I am aware that elder abuse is against the law, but in my understanding, those laws are in the context of dependent aged people being abused by caretakers, hirees or family members, not old people like me who think the best time I spend is time being scourged, raped/impaled, tortured, and crucified. The second-best time is spent doing the same to others, who need it too. I never push others. Whatever they beg for is what I focus on; but to round it out I may also ask, "Do you want to be flogged? What about your cock, balls, (or pussy) and nips? Fucked? Anything else?" If the answer requires me to do something outside my comfort zone, we might discuss it briefly, but short of eating shit or vomit, I've always managed to do what's begged for.

So, please, tell me what laws there are forbidding me to keep on keeping on. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one seeking answers. Was this just a Donald Trump-type thoughtless remark, or is there really some draconian (local? national? international?) law against old farts enjoying kinky sex and bdsm to the max?!

 

[Reb]

I am so thankful that I was not raised in a parochial school. Many of my friends and neighbors were and they shared the horror stories of sadistic nuns. Small wonder their adult lives are laced with quilt perceived or imagined

----
Of all the horrors foisted upon me by the Religious Sisters of Mercy (Mercies) and priests of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) quilt wasn't one of them. Guilt? Of yes, tons; but quilt--not that I recall. I suppose being quilted would have been awful, especially machine quilting where some old biddie would run me up on her Singer sewing machine. I can see some of the Mercies enjoying quilting little kids after an exhausting day of kicking and stomping screaming little boys half-to-death in a cloakroom. But, raping little boys and girls ought not be so taxing on the Jesuits as to interfere with their consumption of Glenlivet single-malt whisky or Jack Daniel's Black Label Whiskey.
Sorry! You were discussed quilting. Anything else?
--Reb

 

[Eulalia]

Agnes wasn't the only adolescent virgin martyr by any means, Eulalia was another, Agatha, and several more:
the common theme was that, at the age when Roman girls were normally given in marriage,
they refused and insisted on being 'brides of Christ'.

But this thread raises the interesting question of old-aged Christian martyrs -
I think there were quite a few actually - St Polycarp comes to mind, he would
(on reasonably acceptable evidence) have been about 87 when he was executed in 155 ad
supposedly he was to be burnt at the stake but proved to be fireproof, so was stabbed to death.

 

[Apostate]

---- I suppose being quilted would have been awful, especially machine quilting where some old biddie would run me up on her Singer sewing machine.

Like one of these? I know of one that was in working order at least through 1970.

 

[Fox-on-Cross]

At 76, I'm going strong.

When your heart beats crazily there is not so much time to release yourself.

 

[windar]

Agnes wasn't the only adolescent virgin martyr by any means, Eulalia was another, Agatha, and several more:
the common theme was that, at the age when Roman girls were normally given in marriage,
they refused and insisted on being 'brides of Christ'.

But this thread raises the interesting question of old-aged Christian martyrs -
I think there were quite a few actually - St Polycarp comes to mind, he would
(on reasonably acceptable evidence) have been about 87 when he was executed in 155 ad
supposedly he was to be burnt at the stake but proved to be fireproof, so was stabbed to death.

Alabama just executed an 83 year old this year. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...83-oldest-in-modern-u-s-history-idUSKBN1HQ1AJ

 

[FrankO]

Alabama just executed an 83 year old this year. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...83-oldest-in-modern-u-s-history-idUSKBN1HQ1AJ

You've got to wonder ... what was the point?

 

[willowfall]

Under Roman law a "girl" was considered a "woman" at 12 years and 1 day of age.

However I am not aware of any Roman law that prevented the execution of "children".

I do know of one case in Japanese history where the wife and children of a defeated Damiyo [sic] were crucified when he got away from the defeat of his army. And no I don't remember which one it was.

The concept that there was a bottom age limit to executing people is relatively modern and of course not adhered too (see: wars in the Balkans, Iraq and Syria).

All that being said in order to no run afoul of the authorities, as has been mentioned, no depictions under 18 are permitted on this site.

And the reason that most of the depictions are of hot sexy women is because (1) mostly there are guys on this site, (2) generally (and biologically) you find women of child bearing age desirable, (3) the vast majority of you don't want to see images that remind you of your mom or grandmother.

kisses

willowfall

 

[Praefectus Praetorio]

Under Roman law a "girl" was considered a "woman" at 12 years and 1 day of age.

However I am not aware of any Roman law that prevented the execution of "children".

I do know of one case in Japanese history where the wife and children of a defeated Damiyo [sic] were crucified when he got away from the defeat of his army. And no I don't remember which one it was.

The concept that there was a bottom age limit to executing people is relatively modern and of course not adhered too (see: wars in the Balkans, Iraq and Syria).

All that being said in order to no run afoul of the authorities, as has been mentioned, no depictions under 18 are permitted on this site.

And the reason that most of the depictions are of hot sexy women is because (1) mostly there are guys on this site, (2) generally (and biologically) you find women of child bearing age desirable, (3) the vast majority of you don't want to see images that remind you of your mom or grandmother.

kisses

willowfall

But Roman Law did forbid the execution of a virgin. So when Sejanus (Praefectus Praetorio) was executed and they wanted to kill his whole family, his teenage daughter was first raped and then strangled to death.

"According to historians Sejanus daughter Junilla was raped with a rope around her neck and her dead body and those of her family members were thrown down the Gemonian stairs to be torn apart by an angry mob (the usual punishment for traitors)."

 

[mp5stab]

Well, in more modern times we can interpret the age of marriage to be twice as high as in Roman times. Eulalia was twenty-four and just finished an intership where she was proposed to by her boss. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As for mantaining the authentic age, I personally don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with historically accurate depictions of teenage or younger crucifixion, but with the clear erotic subtext (and often just explicit text) I’m uncomfortable with such depictions. And even though I don’t personally view naked bodies as inherently sexual, I prefer that only adult naked bodies are displayed. I don’t risk perverts not holding my same principled opinions in the slightest.

Plus it’s against the rules here, so that’s nice.

 

[cruxlover]

Like one of these? I know of one that was in working order at least through 1970.

I have one just like it, I think it still works, though I have not tried it for some time as the drive belt needs refittng.

But seriously, depictions can be a minefield as some persons (either male or female) can look several years younger or older than their actual age.

 

[Tygorn]

Since I am interested in "crucifixion literature", too (I mean, real, commerical books, you can buy at amazon or google, not fan-fic or user-generated content) I may add to this topic, that even if I completely accept the rules in this forum regarding this theme, during my "research" and interest in crux stuff over many years I noticed that there are books out there which have (fictional) crucifixion scenes with younger victims and they have not been rated "restricted" or "adults only" or whatever and were completely legal to buy and read in all countries where they are being sold.
I may add a few titles where I noticed this, for example the "Vespasian" Series by Robert Fabbri, where (beside many others...) a fourteen year old runaway slave is nailed to the cross, in "Gods and Lovers" with a similar event, in "The Ironsmith" by Nicholas Guild, where a sixteen years young bandit is being crucified ... and so on... Thats not supposed to be an "advertisement" for such books, only stating a matter of fact. Of course the "context" of all these books is ancient history and under the rule of the Roman Empire - where it belongs.
Of course regarding visual stuff and pictures thats a completely different matter, there I agree with "cruxlover".

Just my two cents....

 

[willowfall]

Well there is no disputing that historical fact and modern morals often conflict.

As a writer I know I can get away with things in a printed book that is set in an historical time period (for example in the Victorian Era an arranged marriage of a 16 (or younger) year old girl to a 50 or something year old man that would have the morals police all over me if I made it a modern story.

The real problem becomes visual images. If you are creating cartoon like computer images you can probably get safely around most laws but don't use real actors.

And I believe in the UK it is now illegal to depict images of violent rape (although as a woman I am not sure what a non-violent rape would be) for pornographic purposes.

So Disney can do it make their point with violent rape in a released (and appropriately rated) film but god forbid Brazzers does it so you guys can get off.

But this is an old story. In America you can have a body count int he hundreds on prime time TV but you get yanked off the air if you show a pair of nipples.

The reality is money talks and politicians only care about getting reelected so that's why we have to be careful about crossing modern moral supremacists.

kisses

willowfall

 

[windar]

Vladimir Nabokov set "Lolita" in contemporary times and it is acknowledged as a literary classic and is on the shelves at my local library sans protest from anyone.

There is no law forbidding the depiction of underage sexual acts in textual form. Pictures are more problematic, though drawings or CGI images would be difficult to prosecute.

None of that means this web site cannot or should not forbid stories or images of underage. It wouldn't please me if CF attracted the wrong crowd. Bad enough that I'm here....

 

[Naraku]

Since I am interested in "crucifixion literature", too (I mean, real, commerical books, you can buy at amazon or google, not fan-fic or user-generated content) I may add to this topic, that even if I completely accept the rules in this forum regarding this theme, during my "research" and interest in crux stuff over many years I noticed that there are books out there which have (fictional) crucifixion scenes with younger victims and they have not been rated "restricted" or "adults only" or whatever and were completely legal to buy and read in all countries where they are being sold.
I may add a few titles where I noticed this, for example the "Vespasian" Series by Robert Fabbri, where (beside many others...) a fourteen year old runaway slave is nailed to the cross, in "Gods and Lovers" with a similar event, in "The Ironsmith" by Nicholas Guild, where a sixteen years young bandit is being crucified ... and so on... Thats not supposed to be an "advertisement" for such books, only stating a matter of fact. Of course the "context" of all these books is ancient history and under the rule of the Roman Empire - where it belongs.
Of course regarding visual stuff and pictures thats a completely different matter, there I agree with "cruxlover".

Just my two cents....

An important difference is the manner in which things are depicted. I haven't read these books, but I doubt that the events are depicted with the amount of detail or eroticism you would find in the works on this site. It would be one thing to say that a 14 year old boy or girl was crucified, which would be historically accurate, even mentioning that they were naked. But, it is a whole other to describe their bodies and the things done to them in detail and with erotic intent, as would be normal on this site.

Vladimir Nabokov set "Lolita" in contemporary times and it is acknowledged as a literary classic and is on the shelves at my local library sans protest from anyone.

There is no law forbidding the depiction of underage sexual acts in textual form. Pictures are more problematic, though drawings or CGI images would be difficult to prosecute.

None of that means this web site cannot or should not forbid stories or images of underage. It wouldn't please me if CF attracted the wrong crowd. Bad enough that I'm here....

"Lolita" has certainly not been without controversy and contention. It took Nabokov almost two years to find a publisher and it remains one of the books most frequently challenged or banned at public libraries.
When Kubrick made the film version in 1962, he had to greatly tone down the erotic aspects and cast a slightly older actress. Lolita is 12 at the start of the book, Sue Lyon was 14 when shooting started on the movie and 15 when it wrapped; also, her age was kept vague and the character may have been a bit older.

 

[Tygorn]

An important difference is the manner in which things are depicted. I haven't read these books, but I doubt that the events are depicted with the amount of detail or eroticism you would find in the works on this site. It would be one thing to say that a 14 year old boy or girl was crucified, which would be historically accurate, even mentioning that they were naked. But, it is a whole other to describe their bodies and the things done to them in detail and with erotic intent, as would be normal on this site.

Regarding the books I mentioned I would not confirm that, some scenes are actually very elaborated, detailed and gruesome, with the victim pleading for mercy, weeping and screaming in agony, nails driven through flesh and blood splattering. I did not get the impression that the horror of crucifixion is getting toned down. Its more than only a dry "depiction".
But I completely agree about intended "erotic intent", since in my opinion the connection between crucifixion and the "erotic inspiration" exists only in our mind, we create it in our head, it arises in our brain and only there and its not part or intention of commercial source material in most cases. Thats why we "perverted" come here because at this place the "forbidden" connection is allowed and free to share with other similar minded people, isnt it. And thats why these "rules" here are valid and required, I would say, because for "us" its more than "only" a torture- or crufixion scene in a book, which may be gruesome, but realistic in its historic context, and what we connect with it is more than the "normal" book reader would feel when reading such a scene.