Crucifixion in Roman Britain

[windar]

Crucifixion in Roman Britain​

I happened to catch this show on PBS last night about a skeleton discovered in Cambridgeshire, England in 2016 with a nail through its heel. It's only the second such discovery ever -the first was in Israel in the 1960s and was not a complete skeleton. They use a lot of state-of -the-art technology to reconstruct this person's life and even their face. Very much worth a watch.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/preview-death-in-britannia-4n30pe/7827/

 

[Alisha..Executed]

Fuckin A !!

 

[Wragg]

I happened to catch this show on PBS last night about a skeleton discovered in Cambridgeshire, England in 2016 with a nail through its heel. It's only the second such discovery ever -the first was in Israel in the 1960s and was not a complete skeleton. They use a lot of state-of -the-art technology to reconstruct this person's life and even their face. Very much worth a watch.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/preview-death-in-britannia-4n30pe/7827/

I think that we are going to have to wait patiently for that here in the UK...

 

[Loxuru]

I think that we are going to have to wait patiently for that here in the UK...

Archeological excavations near Cruxton Abbey?

 

[windar]

I think that we are going to have to wait patiently for that here in the UK...

Are you unable to stream it from the link?

There was some interesting information about who was subject to crucifixion that was new at least to me. The statement that Roman citizens were not subject to crucifixion was true in the earlier period of the Empire, but at the time this guy was crucified (Carbon dating places it around 250 CE), citizenship had been extended to most people in the Empire, BUT there were classes of citizenship and of course the lower classes were treated much more harshly than the upper crust.

Because of the large number of cattle bones broken open at the site, the archaeologists theorize that he worked extracting marrow, so he was definitely a working stiff and thus felt the full force of the law. There is no record of an insurrection at that site so they think he may have been executed for a minor crime or even just pissing off a powerful person.

Also, there were no nail holes in the arm bones, so they were likely tied.

 

[Wragg]

Are you unable to stream it from the link?

Sadly, no, I just get a 'not available' message.

But thank you for the heads-up!

 

[Madiosi]

Crucifixion in Roman Britain​

I happened to catch this show on PBS last night about a skeleton discovered in Cambridgeshire, England in 2016 with a nail through its heel. It's only the second such discovery ever -the first was in Israel in the 1960s and was not a complete skeleton. They use a lot of state-of -the-art technology to reconstruct this person's life and even their face. Very much worth a watch.

https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/threads/crucifixion-nails-amulets-and-love-potions.4223/

 

[Puritan]

"Also, there were no nail holes in the arm bones, so they were likely tied."

I've always believed that most crucifixions were done like this. arms tied over the back of the cross, or just above the head to a tree or stake, then the ankles nailed

the victim would be tied to the cross beam in this manner then led or dragged to the stake or tree. no escape.

 

[thehangingtree]

"Also, there were no nail holes in the arm bones, so they were likely tied."

I've always believed that most crucifixions were done like this. arms tied over the back of the cross, or just above the head to a tree or stake, then the ankles nailed

the victim would be tied to the cross beam in this manner then led or dragged to the stake or tree. no escape.

A good carpenter would have missed the bones. It is far easier to drive nails through flesh and muscle than it is though bone...

 

[crumera]

Absence of holes in the bones proves nothing:

There is enough room in the wrist to hammer a nail through without leaving holes in the bones.
For example between radius and ulna.
Even through the wrist-bony part you can drive a nail through without damaging the bones much.
The nail would push the little bones out of the way while going in,
effectively spraining the wrist.

I think crucifixion has never been a fixed method.
Nails, ropes or combination of the two will all have been used IMHO.

In my art I prefer to use nails for these reasons:

1 I like the idea of the permanent nature of it.
ropes will get loosened over time and have to be tightens/adjusted once in a while.

2 Spectacle: Visual harshness of nails penetrating the soft body of the crucified

3 Spectacle"Every spectator realized nailing gonna hurt more then just ropes right from the start.

4 Economics:The thought that natural ropes chafe in a non static use, and do not respond well to liqiuds (rot)

5 Economics: The idea iron nails can be quite easily recycled/reforged by a blacksmith.

And a technical reason for me.
6 Ropes are a lot more work to get right in 3D

Everyone in the crucifixion kink has her/his personal preferences how crucifixion should be done,
that's OK of course since it is for each of us a personal fantasy.

 

[Loxuru]

And a technical reason for me.
6 Ropes are a lot more work to get right in 3D

Very pragmatic thinking!

Everyone in the crucifixion kink has her/his personal preferences how crucifixion should be done,
that's OK of course since it is for each of us a personal fantasy.

True! And every personal preference can combine a lot of methods.

 

[windar]

In my art I prefer to use nails for these reasons:

Of course you have artistic license (as long as you pay the proper fees and fill out the forms in triplicate).

I suppose you could nail the wrists without making holes in the bones. The program actually didn't discuss this, though the artist's rendering showed the arms tied behind the crossbeam. I hope the artist who made that had a license...

Undoubtedly, there were local variations and Britain was at the far reaches of the Empire, so may not have always followed the standard protocol (some feel that is still true today). It's not clear why in this particular case, the nail was buried with the victim. I'm imagining the scene:

Sgt Claudius: Pvt Marcus, we're short one nail. Where the fuck is it?
Pvt Marcus: So sorry, sir. Do you want me to dig him up and retrieve it?
Sgt Claudius: No, forget it. In 2000 years this will be a nice mystery for them to solve. But the cost will be deducted from your salary.

 

[Naraku]

Of course you have artistic license (as long as you pay the proper fees and fill out the forms in triplicate).

I suppose you could nail the wrists without making holes in the bones. The program actually didn't discuss this, though the artist's rendering showed the arms tied behind the crossbeam. I hope the artist who made that had a license...

Undoubtedly, there were local variations and Britain was at the far reaches of the Empire, so may not have always followed the standard protocol (some feel that is still true today). It's not clear why in this particular case, the nail was buried with the victim. I'm imagining the scene:

Sgt Claudius: Pvt Marcus, we're short one nail. Where the fuck is it?
Pvt Marcus: So sorry, sir. Do you want me to dig him up and retrieve it?
Sgt Claudius: No, forget it. In 2000 years this will be a nice mystery for them to solve. But the cost will be deducted from your salary.

Done properly; a nail through the wrist or heel of the hand would not cause major damage to the bones. At least, none that could be identified seventeen or eighteen hundred years later. The bones are small and would not preserve well. Any damage could not be distinguished as having been caused by a nail and not by time. Further, a nail would not get stuck in the bone and would not get buried with the body.

On the other hand (pun not intended), a non-professional executioner might not be skilled enough to nail through the wrists effectively without severing the artery, which would result in too swift a death. So, they may have resorted to rope instead. Besides, rope is cheaper. Nails cost more. Just ask Private Marcus.

 

[captivecuties]

Fantasy aside, I always thought a body could tear through if enough weight or such was exerted on it.
Also, when Alexander crucified thousands along with the Spartacus uprising, just think of the amount of nails needed and if they were that readily handy at the time.

 

[mp5stab]

Done properly; a nail through the wrist or heel of the hand would not cause major damage to the bones. At least, none that could be identified seventeen or eighteen hundred years later. The bones are small and would not preserve well. Any damage could not be distinguished as having been caused by a nail and not by time. Further, a nail would not get stuck in the bone and would not get buried with the body.
View attachment 1384071
On the other hand (pun not intended), a non-professional executioner might not be skilled enough to nail through the wrists effectively without severing the artery, which would result in too swift a death. So, they may have resorted to rope instead. Besides, rope is cheaper. Nails cost more. Just ask Private Marcus.

We are doing this again?

You have the costs backwards!

Rope was expensive until the Industrial Revolution, requiring specialized super long paths called “rope walks” many of which are still present in modern cities.

Nails were mass produced in Rome throughout its entire history. They made them in the tons, with dedicated laborers for solely nail making.

http://www.glasgowsteelnail.com/nailmaking.htm?ssp=1&darkschemeovr=1&setlang=en-US&safesearch=off

The important part is that history *suggests* nails were used somewhere around the hands/upper arms for crucifixion. Probably a simple way to affix a criminal that a soldier would have easy access to.

 

[mp5stab]

Of course you have artistic license (as long as you pay the proper fees and fill out the forms in triplicate).

I suppose you could nail the wrists without making holes in the bones. The program actually didn't discuss this, though the artist's rendering showed the arms tied behind the crossbeam. I hope the artist who made that had a license...

Undoubtedly, there were local variations and Britain was at the far reaches of the Empire, so may not have always followed the standard protocol (some feel that is still true today). It's not clear why in this particular case, the nail was buried with the victim. I'm imagining the scene:

Sgt Claudius: Pvt Marcus, we're short one nail. Where the fuck is it?
Pvt Marcus: So sorry, sir. Do you want me to dig him up and retrieve it?
Sgt Claudius: No, forget it. In 2000 years this will be a nice mystery for them to solve. But the cost will be deducted from your salary.

Nail was buried with the victim because they couldn’t get it out.

Romans once abandoned 7 tons of nails in a retreat not far from there. They were never short on nails.

 

[Loxuru]

Fantasy aside, I always thought a body could tear through if enough weight or such was exerted on it.
Also, when Alexander crucified thousands along with the Spartacus uprising, just think of the amount of nails needed and if they were that readily handy at the time.

It was not Alexander, but Crassus who defeated Spartacus and ordered the crucifixion of the prisoners along the Via Appia.
Alexander's most famous mass crucifixion was on the beach of Tyre after the fall of that city. But that was about 250 years before the Spartacus uprise.

 

[crumera]

Spartacus revolt-> lots of iron weapons to convert in to nails by the legions blacksmiths.
Enough wood from fortifications to make a lot of crosses from.

 

[malins]

Sadly, no, I just get a 'not available' message.

Same for me but it does load if you use a VPN, even the one in Opera will work, pick "North/South America" and it will load.

 

[captivecuties]

It was not Alexander, but Crassus who defeated Spartacus and ordered the crucifixion of the prisoners along the Via Appia.
Alexander's most famous mass crucifixion was on the beach of Tyre after the fall of that city. But that was about 250 years before the Spartacus uprise.

I miss quoted above and realize that Alexander was way before.
I meant to combine the two examples.