Remember Visions of Darkness?

[Nyghtfall3D]

VoD.net Closing 10/31/23 - Sick Wife, Real-World Job Stress, and AI

My wife and I have been married for 29 years. She's been permanently disabled for the last 23 of them. Unfortunately, her health has taken a turn for the worse, and we're trying to figure out what to do. That's all I'm going to say on that matter.

I've worked in the banking industry since I was 22. My job stress has significantly increased in recent weeks, and I don't see it letting it up anytime soon.

I had never heard of AI art until someone asked if it was allowed on VoD shortly after we launched in February. As the tech continues to improve, the number of people favoring it over 3D art is growing. I don't blame them, nor do I regret banning it on VoD, but we can't compete with it, either.

The combination of these issues has driven the joy out of being a forum admin and running VoD.net, which sucks because I finally have a much better handle on things than when I closed VoD.com in 2020.

In making this decision and writing this post, I couldn't help thinking of the old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The last thing I ever intended was to make any of you feel that way, and I sincerely apologize for doing this. I was genuinely looking forward to a minimum 10-year run, and completely understand that this was my only shot at redemption. Rest assured, I will never make a third attempt to run a 3D art board, or any other kind of forum.

Incidentally, I'm not turning VoD over to anyone. The process of transferring my forum license and the domain to someone else would be too much of a headache than I want to deal with.

With that in mind, I've disabled the registration process.

Thank you.

 

[Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra]

VoD.net Closing 10/31/23 - Sick Wife, Real-World Job Stress, and AI

My wife and I have been married for 29 years. She's been permanently disabled for the last 23 of them. Unfortunately, her health has taken a turn for the worse, and we're trying to figure out what to do. That's all I'm going to say on that matter.

I've worked in the banking industry since I was 22. My job stress has significantly increased in recent weeks, and I don't see it letting it up anytime soon.

I had never heard of AI art until someone asked if it was allowed on VoD shortly after we launched in February. As the tech continues to improve, the number of people favoring it over 3D art is growing. I don't blame them, nor do I regret banning it on VoD, but we can't compete with it, either.

The combination of these issues has driven the joy out of being a forum admin and running VoD.net, which sucks because I finally have a much better handle on things than when I closed VoD.com in 2020.

In making this decision and writing this post, I couldn't help thinking of the old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The last thing I ever intended was to make any of you feel that way, and I sincerely apologize for doing this. I was genuinely looking forward to a minimum 10-year run, and completely understand that this was my only shot at redemption. Rest assured, I will never make a third attempt to run a 3D art board, or any other kind of forum.

Incidentally, I'm not turning VoD over to anyone. The process of transferring my forum license and the domain to someone else would be too much of a headache than I want to deal with.

With that in mind, I've disabled the registration process.

Thank you.

you did exactly what you did a few years ago...closing the VOD..again...and also completely repeating history...
I didn't forget you then, I lost a lot of my work, pictures, and works then, and I haven't restored some things to this day, after that I didn't trust you anymore, and I don't.

you are a person who, in my opinion, doesn't even know what exactly he wants... what did you expect? Can you manage such a huge website by yourself and manage everything? you didn't learn from it years ago and you don't now...not at all! You have to put up with the AI...it will get into everything, but it can be adapted to! you create a work, and the AI improves it (well, it's rather harsh - the current Ai has to learn a lot!)

I foresaw it! and that's why I left your website some time ago, for personal reasons, many people wrote why?

and I don't regret it! I rather won here. I followed my instinct.

you are right about one thing, but you got a second chance and you failed.
you don't get a third chance.

after this, you'd better not start a new website... probably no one will come. I won't come.

I wish you good luck and goodbye.

for admins (this is not meant as an insult, but as a bare fact of what I experienced years ago)

 

[Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra]

you did exactly what you did a few years ago...closing the VOD..again...and also completely repeating history...
I didn't forget you then, I lost a lot of my work, pictures, and works then, and I haven't restored some things to this day, after that I didn't trust you anymore, and I don't.

you are a person who, in my opinion, doesn't even know what exactly he wants... what did you expect? Can you manage such a huge website by yourself and manage everything? you didn't learn from it years ago and you don't now...not at all! You have to put up with the AI...it will get into everything, but it can be adapted to! you create a work, and the AI improves it (well, it's rather harsh - the current Ai has to learn a lot!)

I foresaw it! and that's why I left your website some time ago, for personal reasons, many people wrote why?

and I don't regret it! I rather won here. I followed my instinct.

you are right about one thing, but you got a second chance and you failed.
you don't get a third chance.

after this, you'd better not start a new website... probably no one will come. I won't come.

I wish you good luck and goodbye.

for admins (this is not meant as an insult, but as a bare fact of what I experienced years ago)

I'm sorry about your wife.. better focus on her, and I wish you a lot of success.

 

[Art]

VoD.net Closing 10/31/23 - Sick Wife, Real-World Job Stress, and AI

My wife and I have been married for 29 years. She's been permanently disabled for the last 23 of them. Unfortunately, her health has taken a turn for the worse, and we're trying to figure out what to do. That's all I'm going to say on that matter.

I've worked in the banking industry since I was 22. My job stress has significantly increased in recent weeks, and I don't see it letting it up anytime soon.

I had never heard of AI art until someone asked if it was allowed on VoD shortly after we launched in February. As the tech continues to improve, the number of people favoring it over 3D art is growing. I don't blame them, nor do I regret banning it on VoD, but we can't compete with it, either.

The combination of these issues has driven the joy out of being a forum admin and running VoD.net, which sucks because I finally have a much better handle on things than when I closed VoD.com in 2020.

In making this decision and writing this post, I couldn't help thinking of the old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The last thing I ever intended was to make any of you feel that way, and I sincerely apologize for doing this. I was genuinely looking forward to a minimum 10-year run, and completely understand that this was my only shot at redemption. Rest assured, I will never make a third attempt to run a 3D art board, or any other kind of forum.

Incidentally, I'm not turning VoD over to anyone. The process of transferring my forum license and the domain to someone else would be too much of a headache than I want to deal with.

With that in mind, I've disabled the registration process.

Thank you.

I do not want to fall into polite phrases now, the reason is that I am not very diplomatic.

Your personal difficulties have not flown from yesterday to today. For this reason, you have also named or appointed two capable moderators.
Before you drive the store, as already, in the past already times, against the wall, I ask you why you do not take a time-out and let the forum supervise and lead by your moderators? You continue to be the licensee of the forum and the two moderators take care of the rest.
How do you think big companies continue to function when the company owners are incapacitated? They have deputies! @Ehliasys and @LapinDeFer are very experienced and very competent people.
If that doesn't work, you can always pull the emergency brake.
But I have the impression that you are not good at delegation. That you think that without you nothing works.
I think you should reconsider the whole thing.
Greetings
artur-ae

Ps.
I forgot to mention: I agree with @Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra in both post on the topic.

 

[Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra]

I do not want to fall into polite phrases now, the reason is that I am not very diplomatic.

Your personal difficulties have not flown from yesterday to today. For this reason, you have also named or appointed two capable moderators.
Before you drive the store, as already, in the past already times, against the wall, I ask you why you do not take a time-out and let the forum supervise and lead by your moderators? You continue to be the licensee of the forum and the two moderators take care of the rest.
How do you think big companies continue to function when the company owners are incapacitated? They have deputies! @Ehliasys and @LapinDeFer are very experienced and very competent people.
If that doesn't work, you can always pull the emergency brake.
But I have the impression that you are not good at delegation. That you think that without you nothing works.
I think you should reconsider the whole thing.
Greetings
artur-ae

Ps.
I forgot to mention: I agree with @Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra in both post on the topic.

thank you.

 

[mp5stab]

Ugh. Suppose this isn’t out of character for you, but now that many people have been burnt twice, you are not going to inspire a lot of goodwill. I hope you can get to a better place in your life.

 

[Zardoz]

VoD.net Closing 10/31/23 - Sick Wife, Real-World Job Stress, and AI

My wife and I have been married for 29 years. She's been permanently disabled for the last 23 of them. Unfortunately, her health has taken a turn for the worse, and we're trying to figure out what to do. That's all I'm going to say on that matter.
.....

Thank you.

I don't see it so critically. I was very happy when you revived VoD, it takes a lot of commitment and strength, certainly more than most here have it. If you now find that you don't have the strength and patience either, that's perfectly fine. Nobody can judge you for that. In the end, this is all our fun and not a commercial event with demands on quality and supply.

I understand that you started with hopes, and very many of us had the same hope. I also see that your hopes and ours have not been fulfilled. You tried a lot of things and put a lot of effort into it. In the end, maybe it was all too much: too much hope, too many attempts, too much strength.

I also posted very actively for a while, but at some point no longer felt at home there. Apart from being one of the renegades who once played around with AI a bit (I think many will come back to 3D), I didn't really know where my work belonged anymore. There was either only vanilla sex or women's corpses on your site. My work is somewhere in between, but never one or the other. In addition, there are certainly some other places where our work can be found in the meantime.

Either way, with certain things, it's more important to have tried than to have succeeded. Thank you for trying. All the best to you and your wife.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

I'm on my lunch break and don't have a lot of time to respond to everyone's feedback, but wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for chiming in.

3D art is my only hobby now. I plan on pursuing it for as long as the industry exists and vendors keep producing content. As @Zardoz pointed out, I did not want to repeat history, but sometimes shit happens that really fucks with you.

I'm going to keep VOD open, keep aiming for a minimum 10-year run, and do what I need away from the board to take care of my wife and alleviate my job stress. As for AI, we'll just have to press on and hope it doesn't kill the industry.

I've also re-opened the registration process.

 

[fallenmystic]

You know that I have a polar opposite opinion from your stance on AI art, which I feel to be quite narrow-minded, honestly speaking. And I wouldn’t have written this if you didn’t change your mind about closing your site.

But since it’s apparent that AI has been, and will remain a major source of stress for you, please regard this as my last attempt at helping you settle on a less antagonistic - and hence, less stressful - terms with the inevitable changes in the landscape.

You said you “can’t compete with AI”, but for what? For more realistic depiction of human body? Or for the easiness of achieving a decent result? If your aim is of a similar nature, then yes you’re right - AI will eat you alive.

But the problem here isn’t that AI is “destroying art” as you might believe, but that you have a wrong, or at least extremely narrow-minded definition of what art is.

As you seem to regard Daz3D renders as legitimate art, let’s think about what this convenient tool’s introduction has affected the artistic landscape. What is Daz3D really? Isn’t it just a tool that allows you to play a “doll house” with models and textures someone else made, so that you can create decent images without having much knowledge of 3D design? If so, don’t you think it “destroys” the traditional 3D art scene by allowing the unskilled masses to mass produce similar renders of the exact same base model ad nauseam?

Although I can name a few skilled Daz3D artists who have distinct styles, the vast majority of the renders made with the tool are almost indistinguishable from each other. It’s something inevitable when most people using the tool rely on the same models and don’t even care to learn what each setting for a surface or render does.

But does it mean Daz3D is not a legitimate tool for art because it trivialises making a decent 3D render, and is responsible for the flood of low-effort works on the internet? Hell no.

On the contrary, I believe Daz3D has opened up the possibilities of expressing one’s inspirations for those without 3D skills. Art is not about learning this or that skill, or about how many hours you’ve spent to master them. And it’s not about a competition to make the most realistic depiction of a subject either. If it was so, painting would have long ceased to exist as a valid method to create art when practically everyone carries a smartphone with a camera lens attached to it.

As I mentioned above, I feel most of the Daz3D renders I find on the internet to be without much technical merit. Still, I can enjoy them nonetheless because it’s the inspiration and ideas the artist tried to convey in such a limited medium that matters to me, not how many hours he or she spent to learn stuff like PBR, or skinning.

Art is, after all, an activity to express one’s ideas and inspirations in an original manner to convey similar emotions to others. If you can’t make an original base mesh for Daz3D, it doesn’t mean you can’t imbue originality in some other aspects, such as the composition or the subject matter. If you fail to do so, it’s not because Daz3D is lacking as a tool of art but because you lack creativity as an artist.

So, unless your goal is something like creating the most realistic depiction of human body, or making decent images with minimal efforts (e.g. for commission), you have no reason to “compete with AI”. AI is simply doing what Daz3D has done until now, namely opening up the possibilities to express one’s ideas without having to master all the technicalities of the traditional ways of making art.

If you are an artist of real merit, AI won’t diminish the value of your work because it’s in the way you use the tool to create something original instead of in the tool’s capabilities in themselves. Only in such a case that you mistook Daz3D’s ability to create a decent render without having to master the 3D techniques as art itself, you would feel threatened by the advent of better tools like AI. But in that case, you shouldn’t feel angry about it because many traditional 3D artists must have felt the same when Daz3D/Poser first appeared in the scene.

So, if you feel Daz3D is the perfect medium to express your creativity in, just keep making good art with it. But if you feel that your ideas can be better represented in a more realistic and diverse manner, try to learn how new tools like Stable Diffusion can help with that. Unless you mistake specific tools and your proficiency of them as art itself, there’s no reason to feel threatened by others start using a different tool from yours.

Or may be you still adhere to your old belief that AI art is like some “image slot machine” so there’s little human elements in it. But in that case, it would be only your ignorance of the subject that is the source of your stress, not AI.

Either way, it only takes you to change your perspective to keep creating good artwork in whatever tool you like, without getting stressed by what others are making with AI. If you feel your works still have merit, keep doing it. And if you feel the effects you want to achieve can be better done with another tool, learn how to use it instead of feeling sour of it. It’s simple as that.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

You said you “can’t compete with AI”, but for what? For more realistic depiction of human body? Or for the easiness of achieving a decent result? If your aim is of a similar nature, then yes you’re right - AI will eat you alive.

By "compete", I mean that VoD is a 3D art site and, as such, needs 3D artists to contribute content and remain active. The more folks gravitate toward AI, the less content there is to contribute to VoD, and thus its relevance in the art community comes into question.

As for my position on AI, this is straight from VoD's ToS:

Supported Content Creation Tools

VoD's primary goal is to offer a place where digital artists who create original, computer-generated, 3D-rendered images can share their work and get meaningful, constructive feedback from peers and viewers. To that end, if apps like Daz Studio, Poser, Blender, et al are in your toolkit and part of your workflow, then your work is welcome here - VoD was built for you. Your kit doesn't have to be limited to those three. They're merely examples for reference.

If you're a traditional artist, we also support the tools of your craft, whether your medium of choice is sketching, drawing, or painting.

AI-Generated Content

We value the human imagination and our own creative ability. Unfortunately, art generated by Artificial Intelligence (AI) is a thing now, and there's no stopping its progress.

In March 2023, the US Copyright office updated its policy regarding this topic. It states that artwork generated by user prompts does not meet the definition of human authorship because prompts function more like instructions to a commissioned artist. They determine what the user wants to see depicted, but the machine determines how those instructions are implemented in its output. In contrast, human-authored artwork featuring AI-generated elements does meet the definition of human authorship.

I've experimented with a few open-source solutions like Stable Diffusion to understand how the technology works and how it might compliment VoD's philosophy. "Prompt engineering" can be used to tell AI what kind of lens, light, and angles to use, and wire-frame models generated from other images can even tell AI what kind of poses to use with image-to-image processing, but users have no granular control over those kinds of details, and no idea what they're going to see until after the results are generated - the machine is still responsible for interpreting those prompts. Therefore, I agree with the Copyright Office's assessment. Using their policy as my guide, I've established the following rules:

AI-generated art and stories are prohibited.

Human-authored artwork featuring AI-generated elements is allowed.

AI-generated elements may include things like pictures on a wall and materials for custom Daz or Poser characters. See the images below for an example. The image on the left was generated by Stable Diffusion:



If you're struggling to find your creative voice, we're happy to help you achieve whatever artistic goals you'd like to reach.

 

[fallenmystic]

By "compete", I mean that VoD is a 3D art site and, as such, needs 3D artists to contribute content and remain active. The more folks gravitate toward AI, the less content there is to contribute to VoD, and thus its relevance in the art community comes into question.

As for my position on AI, this is straight from VoD's ToS:
…

Yeah, that ToS was what I had in mind when I wrote my post above. You made it clear that you support almost all popular methods (including non-3D media, like drawing) of creating fetish art except for AI because you “value the human imagination and our own creative ability”, as if you can’t be creative in expressing your own imagination with AI. It’s just that you started your crusade against AI, and now you realised that you’re losing it. I can’t see it in any different way, honestly.

I tried not to be too antagonistic to your view because proving myself right wasn’t my intention - that people are making great art with AI isn’t something needs proving any more, since you can see it happening everywhere, even on CF.

So, if you still adhere to your biases and get stressed from it, I won’t try to change your view again. Apparently it seems to be the way you chose for yourself and I don’t have any intention or right to help people who don’t think they need it. I’ll just wish things go well with your personal and artistic journey.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

So, if you still adhere to your biases and get stressed from it, I won’t try to change your view again.

I've been browsing the topic of AI art on YouTube when I found a 2-hour long video that does a terrific job responding to some of the arguments proponents of AI art have made. There's an 8-min-long chapter that does a better job than I could explaining what I think about AI art and why I'm against allowing it on VoD. That chapter starts at the time stamp in the first link.

The video also asks if AI is a tool. That chapter starts at that time stamp in the second link.

 

[fallenmystic]

I've been browsing the topic of AI art on YouTube when I found a 2-hour long video that does a terrific job responding to some of the arguments proponents of AI art have made. There's an 8-min-long chapter that does a better job than I could explaining why I'm against allowing AI art on VoD. The first link starts at the time stamp.

I just stopped watching it after a few minutes, when I felt I had heard enough misinformation and fearmongering on the subject, most of which I've already discussed on another AI-related thread.

Yes, you can easily plagiarise another person's art using AI and sell it as your own instead of creating genuine art, indeed.

But so what? Are you also against Daz3D because you can just as easily purchase something like Children for Genesis 8 Female and make child porn with it?

It's because you're still claiming things like how AI allows "no granular control over those kinds of details" that I said I won't try to change your view again. When even clear facts fail to change one's view, there's no room for discussion but for conviction.

I just tried to encourage you to keep making art using the tool you love - you don't need a crusade against AI, and get a lot of stress for doing that.

I won't derail this thread further unless you invite me to. But please feel free to argue in the other thread if you find any of the points the video has made weren't covered by that thread, or in case you find what I said above to be unfair to you.

 

[Aluafaen et Rimmon Ra]

I just stopped watching it after a few minutes, when I felt I had heard enough misinformation and fearmongering on the subject, most of which I've already discussed on another AI-related thread.

Yes, you can easily plagiarise another person's art using AI and sell it as your own instead of creating genuine art, indeed.

But so what? Are you also against Daz3D because you can just as easily purchase something like Children for Genesis 8 Female and make child porn with it?

It's because you're still claiming things like how AI allows "no granular control over those kinds of details" that I said I won't try to change your view again. When even clear facts fail to change one's view, there's no room for discussion but for conviction.

I just tried to encourage you to keep making art using the tool you love - you don't need a crusade against AI, and get a lot of stress for doing that.

I won't derail this thread further unless you invite me to. But please feel free to argue in the other thread if you find any of the points the video has made weren't covered by that thread, or in case you find what I said above to be unfair to you.

your AI work is amazing, my friend, leave this man alone, he doesn't even know what he really wants, and it's clear from the confusion he's showing...

as I said above, either he reconciles with |Ai, or the new technology escapes him and ends up like the dinosaurs.

 

[fallenmystic]

your AI work is amazing, my friend, leave this man alone, he doesn't even know what he really wants, and it's clear from the confusion he's showing...

as I said above, either he reconciles with |Ai, or the new technology escapes him and ends up like the dinosaurs.

Thanks for the compliment. I don't know much of the history of VoD to make any judgment of Nyghtfall3D myself, although we had argued a few times about the feasibility of AI as a legitimate means of art.

As you can see clearly from this thread, we have diametrically different views on that matter. And I agree that arguing about something on which a person already has a conviction may not always yield a productive result.

However, I appreciate how Nyghtfall3D visited the other AI thread to raise questions about the technology. And I believe we can enjoy debating on such a matter as long as we both adhere to the facts instead of prejudices and try to be open-minded. So, I have no intention of dismissing the opportunity before the argument hits a wall again.

 

[Zardoz]

Art is, after all, an activity to express one’s ideas and inspirations in an original manner to convey similar emotions to others. If you can’t make an original base mesh for Daz3D, it doesn’t mean you can’t imbue originality in some other aspects, such as the composition or the subject matter. If you fail to do so, it’s not because Daz3D is lacking as a tool of art but because you lack creativity as an artist....

So it's not quite that simple. I also see the advantages of AI-generated images and use them, but at this point, AI-generated images don't have much to do with a creative process.
When I produce a 3D image, I usually have a very precise picture in mind of what I want to see in the end (I am often then dissatisfied with the result, but that's another topic). Sometimes I carry a subject or scene around with me for days and I can't find an idea of what to make of it. Sometimes a theme triggers me very spontaneously, and I have a whole chain of ideas, but I always know pretty much what it's going to be. Sometimes I'll play around with a character, modifying and adapting it until a picture forms in my head of what I can and want to do with it and what I don't want to do. Even though I don't consider myself an artist, I think it's what you call a creative process.

With AI, it's completely different. I take a theme and formulate the prompt, play around with the settings, and enjoy what AI comes up with for me. But I don't feel at all like it's something that's legitimately mine. To be honest, it's something. And most of the time, it's better than anything I could make. But it's not mine.
Above all: it has nothing to do with what I had in mind before. On the contrary, I feel how the image I carry in my head is displaced by the results AI shows me. Since I realized this, my interest in AI has cooled a lot. I don't see how AI should have more fun than I do.

It may be that I haven't really mastered AI yet, or that this will eventually change with Tafi or other tools, I'll be watching.

To get back to the topic. The problem Nyghtfall has is that anyone with a good computer and a bit of technical understanding can easily create AI images and flood any good forum with them. From there I understand his decision, even if it unfortunately leads to the fact that many who are just with AI, then withdraw at VoD (like me). In the end, though, these ladies in dirty rags and with dented nipples kind of always look the same. Always the same different, if you know what I mean. In the end, I actually prefer bad pictures in 3D with a real idea than perfect pictures of sad looking girls.

 

[fallenmystic]

With AI, it's completely different. I take a theme and formulate the prompt, play around with the settings, and enjoy what AI comes up with for me. But I don't feel at all like it's something that's legitimately mine. To be honest, it's something. And most of the time, it's better than anything I could make. But it's not mine.
Above all: it has nothing to do with what I had in mind before. On the contrary, I feel how the image I carry in my head is displaced by the results AI shows me. Since I realized this, my interest in AI has cooled a lot. I don't see how AI should have more fun than I do.

It may be that I haven't really mastered AI yet, or that this will eventually change with Tafi or other tools, I'll be watching.

What you described is a common misconception from those who only have a casual experience with AI image generation. I have talked about it in the other AI thread here, and also with Nyghtfall3D on his site before.

It’s because they try AI image generation on one of the online services which provides an easy, but limited features and models. So, they mostly try fiddling with prompting alone (a.k.a “image slot machine) and mistakenly assume that it’s all there is to see about AI-assisted image generation.

In fact, almost nobody who’s serious about it relies on such a random and limited method to produce their art. Instead, they use more powerful tools like A1111 or ComfyUI and develop their own workflow with them.

If you have failed to put what you had in your mind into an image with the site you trie, it was’t because the AI “isn’t there yet” but because you didn’t go deeper than scratching the surface of the subject.

I recommend to visit the other AI thread in case you feel curious about the subject since the same arguments have been dealt with there, and you can have a glimpse of ways that you can use AI to precisely depict what you have in mind.

I don’t want to convert every thread I visit into a debate about AI, so we can continue the discussion in a more appropriate place if you have more things to say about the matter.

 

[Zardoz]

What you described is a common misconception....

I actually work with SD A1111 via a local computer and think I've exhausted the possibilities well with it, though I haven't tried the latest innovations with Control Net via sdxl.
I won't claim to understand the system fully, but I bet even you aren't capable of recreating a concrete scene with the means of AI or creating something that wouldn't be more to chance than to creative will. If you are, I bow to you. What I've seen from you so far looks exactly like what I and many others get done. I do not mean that in a disparaging way.

We can continue the discussion elsewhere, but I must honestly say that I don't like the apodictic way in which you defend your arguments ("You are wrong because you haven't yet understood that I am right").

By the way, I am very grateful for your helpful technical hints on AI in the Link you mentioned. I have recommended this thread myself as a starting point many times. Here I am only interested in defending the position of Nyghtfall.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

We can continue the discussion elsewhere, but I must honestly say that I don't like the apodictic way in which you defend your arguments ("You are wrong because you haven't yet understood that I am right").

Funny you should say that. I've been pondering whether to ask @fallenmystic if there's any kind of barometer AI opponents like myself should measure our experience with AI against before our arguments are no longer considered uninformed or based on feelings instead of facts.

 

[fallenmystic]

I actually work with SD A1111 via a local computer and think I've exhausted the possibilities well with it, though I haven't tried the latest innovations with Control Net via sdxl.

The problem is that you haven't used the exact part (i.e. ControlNet) which would have allowed you to do what you claimed to be impossible (i.e. generating images in the way you want, not by chance.)

By the way, ControlNet has long been available for SD 1.5. What I mentioned about my waiting for it to arrive was about using it for SDXL in SD.Next (an A1111 clone).

...but I bet even you aren't capable of recreating a concrete scene with the means of AI or creating something that wouldn't be more to chance than to creative will. If you are, I bow to you. What I've seen from you so far looks exactly like what I and many others get done. I do not mean that in a disparaging way.

We can continue the discussion elsewhere, but I must honestly say that I don't like the apodictic way in which you defend your arguments ("You are wrong because you haven't yet understood that I am right").

It's only because you were far from being the first who mistakenly claimed that and because I know it's just factually wrong.

When you claim that it's impossible to do what I've been doing for a year, I can confidently say that you are wrong and may try to point to material with which you may learn about it.

I don't see myself as any kind of artist so if you don't find my works to be impressive, that's totally understandable - I feel it that way too.

But if you actually saw my AI works and believe they were not different from what you can randomly generate using a prompt, then I have to wonder if you are making any sense.

Do you honestly believe that AI has the same fetish as mine so that it just randomly generates things like an Asian royal maid walking a naked white girl on a leash, for example?



By the way, this was the initial sketch and base render from which I developed the above render after spending several hours to add/fix all the details:



I have several different workflows with which I can convert what I envisioned in my mind to an AI render. See this render, for example,



which was made from a base scene I made in Blender for this purpose:



Care to admit that you were wrong about your claim that AI generation is little more than prompting for random stuff, now that I showed you concrete examples for doing what you claimed to be impossible with AI (i.e. generating images precisely as the author imagined)?

Funny you should say that. I've been pondering whether to ask @fallenmystic if there's any kind of barometer AI opponents like myself should measure our experience with AI against before our arguments are no longer considered uninformed or based on feelings instead of facts.

Claims about facts can be easily proved or disproved by producing evidence. There's no need to rely on some authority because you can always ask me if this or that about AI is true then I may provide relevant evidence to verify the claim, just like what I did above.

P.S.: I just realised that @Zardoz is the author of this thread where you have uploaded several AI works yourself. I'm rather surprised that you've come that far without using ControlNet. Try things like ControlNet or custom train Loras, and it will help you get the result you want.