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Roman Resources

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Eulalia said:
They tried tinkering with the recipe
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I sometimes struggle to see the point of this from a purely marketing perspective -- some things very obviously exist to just always stay the same, why mess with them? Any damned ad agency or consultancy or marketing department should recognize that the unique selling point of Lea & Perrins sauce can't ever be 'new tastes for new times' or something ;)
 
Probably trying to cut costs, fermenting anchovies for 18 months isn't the sort of process that time-is-money management favours, so they try cutting corners, throw together something that looks, smells and tastes vaguely similar ... you can fool most of the people most of the time ...
 
Eulalia said:
Probably trying to cut costs, fermenting anchovies for 18 months isn't the sort of process that time-is-money management favours, so they try cutting corners, throw together something that looks, smells and tastes vaguely similar ... you can fool most of the people most of the time ...
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They have to take a cue from the whisky business, etc.

SINGLE CATCH, SINGLE BARREL ANCHOVIES FERMENTED 18 MONTHS

A mark of quality!

But yes, time-is-money management has destroyed things much more important than spicy sauces...
 
phlebas said:
the Norse remains
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Anyway, a thing to consider...

The Norse settlement is usually studied as an example of failure.

They came, they settled, and then ... they 'vanished.'

However in between there were 450 - 500 years.

In which they had actually succeeded to perpetuate their society under changing demands from the environment, with very limited means ... but also, when things went bad, the always available option to relocate to some other Norse-settled territory. (It's not as if all of them just held on and died out)

Half a millennium is actually quite an accomplishment.
 
malins said:
Anyway, a thing to consider...

The Norse settlement is usually studied as an example of failure.

They came, they settled, and then ... they 'vanished.'

However in between there were 450 - 500 years.

In which they had actually succeeded to perpetuate their society under changing demands from the environment, with very limited means ... but also, when things went bad, the always available option to relocate to some other Norse-settled territory. (It's not as if all of them just held on and died out)

Half a millennium is actually quite an accomplishment.
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They weren't successful because the technological differences in the weapon systems was not significant enough to overcome the shortage of manpower.

Still you have to give the natives credit, they are the only culture on Earth to have driven the Vikings permanently out.

kisses

willowfall
 
Eulalia said:
My corner of Scotland is still bouncing back after the most recent glaciation, about 10,000 years back. The relative sea-level is dropping at about 1mm a year - may not seem much, but when the Romans came the sea-level would have been getting on for 2 metres higher than today, which meant the tide flowed a significant way further up the river estuaries than it does now, and helps explain the locations of Roman camps and crossing-places.

Of course if global warming melts the Greenland ice-sheet, the sea could rise very quickly back to Roman level or even higher.
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A world wide phenomenon because the land is rising back up after having had the weight of the ice on it for thousands of years.

Happening in a lot of places in the northern hemisphere.

kisses

willowfall
 
willowfall said:
A world wide phenomenon because the land is rising back up after having had the weight of the ice on it for thousands of years.

Happening in a lot of places in the northern hemisphere.

kisses

willowfall
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True, though conversely other parts are sinking. Especially the south and east of England ...
(I'll resist adding a smiley!)
 
Eulalia said:
True, though conversely other parts are sinking. Especially the south and east of England ...(I'll resist adding a smiley!)
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Of course what we take to be "solid ground" is floating on a molten elastic mantel which does what it feels like doing.

There have even been some studies which indicate that the planet will expand on one axis while contracting on anther. Like a balloon being squeezed.

kisses

willowfall
 
twonines said:
I believe Eulalia`s version is correct.
In Yorkshire we are more likely to use Hendersons Relish which is made in Sheffield and, as far as I know, is still owned by the original company.
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Eulalia said:
Probably trying to cut costs, fermenting anchovies for 18 months isn't the sort of process that time-is-money management favours, so they try cutting corners, throw together something that looks, smells and tastes vaguely similar ... you can fool most of the people most of the time ...
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old slave said:
A fine condiment indeed, but no anchovies.
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It was my impression that all food in the UK was consumed only after drowned in HP Sauce (a brown industrial sludge manufactured in the Netherlands. Breakfast, lunch, chips, dinner, all go better with brown!
 
Praefectus Praetorio said:
It was my impression that all food in the UK was consumed only after drowned in HP Sauce (a brown industrial sludge manufactured in the Netherlands. Breakfast, lunch, chips, dinner, all go better with brown!
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HP sauce was originally designed to mask the effects of food going off in the warmer climates, and is actually a reasonable blend of spices and is quite palatable.Michel Roux the famous French chef is actually a fan.
As for it now being made in Holland,don`t get me going,I have promised myself not to get into political discussions on here.
 
twonines said:
HP sauce was originally designed to mask the effects of food going off in the warmer climates, and is actually a reasonable blend of spices and is quite palatable.Michel Roux the famous French chef is actually a fan.
As for it now being made in Holland,don`t get me going,I have promised myself not to get into political discussions on here.
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Just hold your nose, call it bruine saus and swallow!
 
Praefectus Praetorio said:
It was my impression that all food in the UK was consumed only after drowned in HP Sauce (a brown industrial sludge manufactured in the Netherlands. Breakfast, lunch, chips, dinner, all go better with brown!
Click to expand...
twonines said:
HP sauce was originally designed to mask the effects of food going off in the warmer climates, and is actually a reasonable blend of spices and is quite palatable.Michel Roux the famous French chef is actually a fan.
As for it now being made in Holland,don`t get me going,I have promised myself not to get into political discussions on here.
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It really depends. As with any sauce (HP, A1, or ketchup), you can drown things in it, or use it to enhance flavour. I personally like HP as a marinade, barbecue sauce, and as a steak accompaniment. Its blend of tamarind, dates, and spices is excellent. The stuff I get is apparently made in the USA for Heinz Canada of North York, Ontario, which has the license from the UK originator. Nothing is simple. Now, are we going to crucify the Dutch girl? :rolleyes::confused::doh:
 
willowfall said:
They weren't successful because the technological differences in the weapon systems was not significant enough to overcome the shortage of manpower.

Still you have to give the natives credit, they are the only culture on Earth to have driven the Vikings permanently out.

kisses

willowfall
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Well, this was one boatload in the Leif Erikson saga, maybe 30-50 men, staying for maybe a season, so hardly a concerted effort. It seems there were a handful of Norse arrivals in North America, many of them unintentional, and they didn't find the strange land very hospitable. Leif himself rescued 2 men they found who had been blown off course, and he was following in the footsteps of another man who had sighted land after being blown too far west.
Ultimately it was too far away to be a practical destination, the hostility of the natives certainly didn't help.
 
willowfall said:
They weren't successful because the technological differences in the weapon systems was not significant enough to overcome the shortage of manpower.

Still you have to give the natives credit, they are the only culture on Earth to have driven the Vikings permanently out.
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Concerning Greenland, an interesting fact is that the Thule (proto-Inuit) people who took over as the Norse disappeared (whether they caused them to disappear or not) were not even present on Greenland at all when the Norse arrived.

As such they weren't, in the context of that time, 'native Greenlanders' anymore than the Norse were - both were newcomers, with the Norse getting there first. In fact the Thule people had before reaching Greenland, expanded over the Canadian arctic -- were they spread at the cost of previously existing peoples (such as the Dorset culture) - the graphic here shows it quite well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_people

A decisive difference of course was that the cultural toolkit of the Norse (agricultural, fixed settlements) was at the margins of sustainability in Greenland even during the medieval climate optimum, and it was never possible to support a full Norse civilization from what Greenland had to offer - they were always highly dependent on trade. The Thule people however had a cultural toolkit that was fully optimized for the Arctic environment and could fully support themselves from local resources.

Of course by the time the Danish returned to Greenland in the 1700s, the Thule/Inuit had been established there for centuries and thus, natives, but when they showed up and made contact with the Norse, they were actually newcomers. The first 'skraelings' that the Norse encountered had been other peoples.
 
malins said:
Concerning Greenland, an interesting fact is that the Thule (proto-Inuit) people who took over as the Norse disappeared (whether they caused them to disappear or not) were not even present on Greenland at all when the Norse arrived.
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When I was talking about the natives I was referring to the natives on the North American continent not the Thule people in Greenland. Greenland is one of those places on the planet you can have because nobody else wants it.

My stepdad served at Thule during the Cold War. And for the guys there "cold" had an entirely different meaning than for everybody else involved.

kisses

willowfall
 
As it starts from the 4th century CE, this excellent website linked by @KageKamen in a new thread is worth noting under Roman Resources

Teaching Medieval Slavery and Captivity

No, nothing here is (deliberately) erotic. You might learn something though. http://medievalslavery.org/
www.cruxforums.com
 
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