Behavior on the cross

[PhilX]

Maybe? Maybe not. The 'special' character of Christ's crucifixion is what history has made of it. Starting with the Gospels.

Perhaps, they crucified every month someone who claimed to be the son of God or the king of the Jews, and had made a bit of riot.
My personal theory is, that Christ got crucified for a mock reason (there was no freedom of speech), because he was as a rabbi too charismatic, and a womaniser. Better to crucify the rabbi for his speech, than lapidating all these married women he seduced.

That's a good point, I am also sure he was considered a womaniser due to the number who came out to hear him speak & just to be near him, this must have been a source of petty irritation & jealousy to the Roman soldiers & Temple guards - all confined to barracks most of the time. So he was ripe for severe ill treatment at their hands. They would have been very happy to exhibit his nude body, beaten & bleeding to the women in the crowd watching.

Of course the beauty of such sketchy information is that it can be interpreted in so many ways. I still think his crucifixion was a special event because if we are to believe it huge crowds turned out to welcome his arrival in the city, all those bitterly disappointed & let down turned out to see him tortured to death.

And of course theologically Jesus had to reach a nadir of pain humiliation etc to make his sacrifice more than other prophets before & saints later

 

[theseus]

The search for relief, for a position that allowed breathing and didn't bring untold agony, would lead the victim to move at least in the early stages. Being tied to the cross would be easier, and the arched position is surprisingly comfortable in that situation, but it all depends on the position of the feet. This is where experience comes in, the executioner would know just where to position the nails or bindings for maximum effect. In the right place the feet prevent the legs from straightening effectively, leading to an uncomfortable shifting between one unsatisfactory position and another.

Add nails, and the experience becomes sheer torture. Whatever choice the victim makes there is horrible pressure on their wrists and feet, tearing flesh, nerves grinding against iron etc.

Then we have the unsung element of crux, the cramp. You all know how agonising a cramp can be, and how you instinctively try to find a position that relieves the pain. Imagine this with your limbs stretched and nailed to the wood. Movement is inevitable, and futile.

Unlike a migraine, there is no option for lying down, no easy way to ride it out. Crux grips and victim and shakes them until exhaustion sets in, and eventually death, the final release. Not graceful, but grim. But let's not allow that to upset our erotic fantasies!

Cramp can be incredibly painful, and very difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of when in a position where you cannot stretch the cramped muscle. Being nailed to a cross is not recommended.

I wonder if perhaps the victims did talk, pray or even perhaps sing as a way of making the pain more bearable by means of distraction? Concentrating on something else, perhaps your hatred of the bastard who sentenced you to this agony, or even of the poor squaddie who was only obeying orders as he hammered the spikes into your flesh, uniting you to that hated piece of timber for the rest of your miserable life?

People have the ability to endure incredible pain for very long periods. If the crucified was kept hydrated they could probably last for several days, while slowly dying of exposure, and the depredations of ravens and rats nibbling them away around the edges.

 

[Juan1234]

Maybe not all crucified victims were stripped naked maybe that was saved for the extreme cases. With mass crucifixions such as Alexander's slaughter of the population of Tyre, maybe those poor folk were just roped up on very rudimentary crosses (or even stakes) dressed in what they had, not much need to make a spectacle of an individual

I think the soldiers responsible for executing the people would be unlikely to leave behind valuable hand-woven cloth when it was free for the taking. Multiple ancient sources state that crucifixion victims were naked on the cross, and the clothing of the condemned person was a valuable part of the soldiers' pay for their work.

 

[Beate]

Some things to think about.
The scriptures say that Jesus fell several times on the way to the cross while carrying the patibulum.
Medical experts assume that the heart was damaged and a weakened wall formed in the heart.
When he was crucified, Jusus did not feel any of this.
In the course of the torture, the stretched wall of the heart tore, which Jesus felt and he obviously recognised that it was coming to an end (infarction).
In this case, i.e. the ruptured heart wall, blood escapes from the heart and collects in the pericardium, which surrounds the heart like a protective layer. In the pericardial sac there is otherwise bright clear secretion, which is heavier than blood and collects at the bottom of the sac. The fact that blood is now also flowing into it must have stretched the pericardium to the point of bursting.
This would also explain why "water" ran out first and then blood after the stab with the lance.

Add 1.
The crucifixions of the Romans were primarily terror executions. Anyone who saw this should realise that this is what happens to you when you (the defeated) resist (the victors).


Add 2.
At the cross there is no position that is a relief. that is how it should be. if you brace yourself with your legs to relieve the arms you quickly get cramps and other pains. but you can exhale at least for a short time.
After that you hang in your arms and legs and the suffering continues until you die.

Crucifixion is the worst thing I can imagine because it takes a relatively long time.

 

[PhilX]

Cramp can be incredibly painful, and very difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of when in a position where you cannot stretch the cramped muscle. Being nailed to a cross is not recommended.

I wonder if perhaps the victims did talk, pray or even perhaps sing as a way of making the pain more bearable by means of distraction? Concentrating on something else, perhaps your hatred of the bastard who sentenced you to this agony, or even of the poor squaddie who was only obeying orders as he hammered the spikes into your flesh, uniting you to that hated piece of timber for the rest of your miserable life?

People have the ability to endure incredible pain for very long periods. If the crucified was kept hydrated they could probably last for several days, while slowly dying of exposure, and the depredations of ravens and rats nibbling them away around the edges.

Does any medical person know where the cramps would happen whilst nailed to a cross? The calf muscles or the thighs? It would be useful to know is one is writing a story.

 

[ERIN the Brave]

I've often contemplated how people actually behaved as they hung on a cross for hour after hour, even day after day. I think maybe many people have a foundational misconception from graceful crucifix art that people would strike a graceful pose and suffer in silence, but I doubt that's true. It seems to be popular, partly from historical speculation, partly from its erotic appeal to many, to think of people "dancing" on the cross. But even if this is true (dancing out of necessity to get oxygen), surely there was much more going on. Surely the PAIN was the primary thing, right? I'm fairly certain that at least for the first while, a crucified person would be screaming, sobbing, frantic, out of control trying to come to terms with the agony.

Of course it couldn't last that way forever. They wouldn't have the energy to scream for 2-3 days straight. But the pain would never lessen, would it? Does anybody have a medical perspective on whether endorphins would eventually bring them to some sort of equilibrium? Or would their mind just have to check out at some point? Would they be literally insane after an hour or so, as their body's way of trying to cope? Or would they remain lucid and fully experiencing the ever-deepening agony, gradually just losing the ability to express it? It's hard to imagine. Would love to hear thoughts from others.

I was on the cross for 30 mins. and it hurt, my arms cramped and my legs were numb.No plans to ever di it again.

 

[culus]

I imagine it would depend upon the physical condition/stamina of the person hanging on the cross. I have been crucified a number of times and the longest period of time lasted just under one hour. Thankfully I was mounted on a cornu, which provided for additional support, albeit with a good size phallus filling my rectum, but the stress on my arms, shoulders, chest, belly and hips was terrible and exhausting. There's no doubt in my mind that it would be a horrible, excrutiating way to die. Perhaps endorphins would increase and some sort of reverie would wash over the crucified victim making for a more peaceful death, but I wouldn't like to find out from personal experience.

 

[woodflesh]

Does any medical person know where the cramps would happen whilst nailed to a cross? The calf muscles or the thighs? It would be useful to know is one is writing a story.

the calf muscles if the victim tries to stretch the legs with feet nailed flat directly to the beam with toes showing downwards.

 

[woodflesh]

the calf muscles if the victim tries to stretch the legs with feet nailed flat directly to the beam with toes showing downwards.

Here a first example, not nailed, but you can watch the cramping leg muscles, after a while the calfs are cramping steadily.
https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/data/video/1227/1227958-57a86f5bcbf64e1280438d503d8caa85.mp4

 

[woodflesh]

Here a first example, not nailed, but you can watch the cramping leg muscles, after a while the calfs are cramping steadily.
https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/data/video/1227/1227958-57a86f5bcbf64e1280438d503d8caa85.mp4

I will try to find more so you will see that these cramps are typically for the agony on the cross, imagine the pain of every crucified victim. You can try the following: lay in your bed, stretch your legs and stretch your feet, the toes flat to your bed, what happens when you remain in this position?

 

[woodflesh]

the calf muscles if the victim tries to stretch the legs with feet nailed flat directly to the beam with toes showing downwards.

Enjoy watching a crucified slave during almost an hour and look at his muscles more and more cramping, especially you see exactly the reaction of his leg muscles when the feet are fixed in this manner. Here bound with ropes, of course, but in your phantasy you can imagine, that he is hanging by nails...
https://thisvid.com/videos/rookie-slave-crucified/

 

[Crucified Life]

The kind of behavior I most like on the cross is long after all the loud screaming and sounds and movement of agonized torture, cross-dance and active and aware looking around by victims earlier in their crucified life. The victim is now calm and relatively still apart from breathing and seems resigned to their fate with their pain in the background, accepting of their body being compelled to be in this position of arms up and outstretched, legs fixed down, slightly bent and crossed. While the victim is calm now, the blood, whip marks, sweat, and tears (of both genders) are testiment to what they had been through earlier. The shameless signs of earlier urination down the victims leg and the obvious physical signs of dehydration, body odour and the occasional interest of a few flies in the victim, and the accepting lack of reaction, or possibly awareness to them from the victim denotes both the sheer helplessness of the victims and is an indication of a long time on the cross.

Earlier there may have been obvious signs of emotional distress or distain from humiliation about the forced exposure and nudity, but now they are well accepting of their nakedness. While the involuntarily exposed and visible genitals (whether male or female) and armpits are an ongoing torment for the victim, exposed breasts are a seemingly unapologetic extra humiliation female victims must endure if crucified in the same manner as male victims. But while the weight of the enduring humiliation is just as much a source of agony as their pain, the victims now quietly endure everything.

The unrelenting discomfort from cramps and muscle strain from being forced by the ropes and nails into hanging by their arms in an outstretched position with strain and unable to bend their arms is the assumed reason for the suffering expression on victims faces, occasional low moans and laboured breathing sounds. After the initial loud screaming phase, the victim would have found a plataeu in the pain and managed to reach out and speak to or with other victims on nearby crosses, and onlookers, maybe even the guards and executioners. But now no words are spoken to conserve strength; although the victim is still capable of speaking with some effort. This quiet, dignified passive enduring phase is my favorite in terms of behavior on the cross.

 

[frost]

I think the soldiers responsible for executing the people would be unlikely to leave behind valuable hand-woven cloth when it was free for the taking. Multiple ancient sources state that crucifixion victims were naked on the cross, and the clothing of the condemned person was a valuable part of the soldiers' pay for their work.

Just to quantify this, Bret Devereaux's blog cites a couple of researchers who looked into pre-modern textile production; in Roman times, the production of one square yard (8400 cm^2) of linen would require 90–115 person-hours of labor. I don't know the dimensions of ancient Roman underclothing, but Wikipedia's description of one type of fundoshi requires 6550 cm^2 of cloth, so 60–75 person-hours.
http s://acoup.blog/2021/03/19/collections-clothing-how-did-they-make-it-part-iii-spin-me-right-round/

 

[PhilX]

Here a first example, not nailed, but you can watch the cramping leg muscles, after a while the calfs are cramping steadily.
https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/data/video/1227/1227958-57a86f5bcbf64e1280438d503d8caa85.mp4

Yes I thought the calf muscles would be the main ones effected.

Great video, very much how those standing near the cross would see the writhing to relieve pain & how a penis bounces around with every move.

 

[Cruxpassion]

Yes I thought the calf muscles would be the main ones effected.

Great video, very much how those standing near the cross would see the writhing to relieve pain & how a penis bounces around with every move.

Yes, certainly a joy for those who watch to see the penis bouncing ... but not so funny for the victim on the cross ;-)

My personal expieriences are as follows, when you are not "standing" on the cross but have your feet either fixed with the soles rather flat to the stipe (vertical beam) or fixed on both sides of the stipe. In these positions, the most effected muscles are definitely those of the femur, followed by those of the calf and the ones of the upper arm and around the shoulders. But actually, the femoral ones (those in the front portion of the femur in particular) are the very first ones that start shivering and cramping. This is mostly because they carry most of the body weight, and as soon as you release your arms this becomes even more the case.

I will try to find more so you will see that these cramps are typically for the agony on the cross, imagine the pain of every crucified victim. You can try the following: lay in your bed, stretch your legs and stretch your feet, the toes flat to your bed, what happens when you remain in this position?

And, as already explained by woodflesh the position of the feet that are stretched out and not held in the usual 90° angle to the calf make this effect even worse.

 

[GabriellaSivilla]

Here a first example, not nailed, but you can watch the cramping leg muscles, after a while the calfs are cramping steadily.
https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/data/video/1227/1227958-57a86f5bcbf64e1280438d503d8caa85.mp4

It was you on the cross? It seems that you are never really hanging from your arms. Is that correct?

 

[Cruxpassion]

It was you on the cross? It seems that you are never really hanging from your arms. Is that correct?

Not exactly. It was my model.

This is just a short footage of a crux session that was much longer. He (and that also concerns to myself) was also hanging from his arms, but in fact it is a permanent change between releasing your cramping arms and using your arms to release your cramping legs. That's what causes what is often called "dancing on the cross". Thereby, you constantly try to find a halfway comfortable or at least sufferable position on the cross, which in this position however is impossible! And that's the torment of hanging on the cross ;-)

 

[GabriellaSivilla]

Not exactly. It was my model.

This is just a short footage of a crux session that was much longer. He (and that also concerns to myself) was also hanging from his arms, but in fact it is a permanent change between releasing your cramping arms and using your arms to release your cramping legs. That's what causes what is often called "dancing on the cross". Thereby, you constantly try to find a halfway comfortable or at least sufferable position on the cross, which in this position however is impossible! And that's the torment of hanging on the cross ;-)

Yeah, I know the dynamics of the dance on the cross. I was only noticing that in the video clip the guy seemed not to be hanging from his arms at all, so I was curious if he really experienced it, or found it easy to push on his legs and support himself.

 

[Cruxpassion]

Yeah, I know the dynamics of the dance on the cross. I was only noticing that in the video clip the guy seemed not to be hanging from his arms at all, so I was curious if he really experienced it, or found it easy to push on his legs and support himself.

I understand what you mean Gabriella. I think it is not about, wheter it is easy to push yourself up on your legs or not, but which position is less agonizing. I mean, you would certainly put up with pushing yourself up no matter how tought that is, if your arms and shoulders start hurting badly and it becomes increasingly harder to breathe.

In this video you can see him hanging mostly from his arms. But at the same time, you can also see the trembling of his femur muscles:

https://www.cruxforums.com/xf/data/video/1148/1148187-d5b06885fd248957bdd6823b1e90fdf1.mp4

 

[culus]

The kind of behavior I most like on the cross is long after all the loud screaming and sounds and movement of agonized torture, cross-dance and active and aware looking around by victims earlier in their crucified life. The victim is now calm and relatively still apart from breathing and seems resigned to their fate with their pain in the background, accepting of their body being compelled to be in this position of arms up and outstretched, legs fixed down, slightly bent and crossed. While the victim is calm now, the blood, whip marks, sweat, and tears (of both genders) are testiment to what they had been through earlier. The shameless signs of earlier urination down the victims leg and the obvious physical signs of dehydration, body odour and the occasional interest of a few flies in the victim, and the accepting lack of reaction, or possibly awareness to them from the victim denotes both the sheer helplessness of the victims and is an indication of a long time on the cross.

Earlier there may have been obvious signs of emotional distress or distain from humiliation about the forced exposure and nudity, but now they are well accepting of their nakedness. While the involuntarily exposed and visible genitals (whether male or female) and armpits are an ongoing torment for the victim, exposed breasts are a seemingly unapologetic extra humiliation female victims must endure if crucified in the same manner as male victims. But while the weight of the enduring humiliation is just as much a source of agony as their pain, the victims now quietly endure everything.

The unrelenting discomfort from cramps and muscle strain from being forced by the ropes and nails into hanging by their arms in an outstretched position with strain and unable to bend their arms is the assumed reason for the suffering expression on victims faces, occasional low moans and laboured breathing sounds. After the initial loud screaming phase, the victim would have found a plataeu in the pain and managed to reach out and speak to or with other victims on nearby crosses, and onlookers, maybe even the guards and executioners. But now no words are spoken to conserve strength; although the victim is still capable of speaking with some effort. This quiet, dignified passive enduring phase is my favorite in terms of behavior on the cross.

Yes, the quiet resignation and surrender to the cross. The final sliding down upon the cornu until it is swallowed up the rectum and jammed against a punished prostate and you are exhausted and lack enough energy to try and pull yourself up. The chest falls, the belly sags, the head slumps forward and you hang, defeated and hopeless, waiting on the inevitable.