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Some Sketches

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Few loose images connected with the same theme.
 

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Exactly, it was story of this poor young girl, Sejanus daughter, raped before being killed with a kind of garrote together with her brother. Her younger brother however was not raped, so this law was created for women only. It is very clear, that her murderers forgot that she was a virgin and must rape her during the execution which was not the proper manner, but they had no choice because they feared not to obey the edict.
 
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Apostate said:
I’ve seen a number of references to the ghastly fate of Sejanus' daughter, one that held she was underage.

Yuck.
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Yep, I think I've taken care to leave that bit out.

Andyman said:
Exactly, it was story of this poor young girl, Sejanus daughter, raped before being killed with a kind of garrote together with her brother. Her younger brother however was not raped, so this law was created for women only. It is very clear, because her murderers forgot that she was a virgin and must rape her during the execution which was not the proper manner, but they had no choice because they feared not to obey the edict.
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I don't know why my link to the previous discussion is being ignored. I'm reproducing my post here.

Marcius said:
...The idea stems from Tacitus’ comment on the fate of Sejanus' daughter, who 'was was violated by the executioner, with the noose beside her'; however, this recent article [PDF] argues against the existence of some general law:

Although there are no references in the law codes concerning the illegality of the execution of virgins, most of what we have in the way of written law is much later. My sense is that it was the case that executing a virgin was merely without precedent, not that there was any explicit written law against it: Dio describes it as ‘‘unlawful’’ (οὐχὄσιον), Tacitus as ‘‘unheard of’’ (inauditum); Suetonius, for his part, writes that ‘‘ancient usage made it impious’’ (more tradito nefas esset). In addition, the choice of words in the Latin clearly expresses the obscenity of the deed: first, Sejanus’ daughter was raped by the public executioner, ‘‘a carnifice...compressam.’’​
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My personal opinion: there was no law forbidding the execution of a virgin, but it at least in this case it was regarded as bad juju, to be avoided by rape if necessary. It might have been thought as such in the City of Rome only; in Britain, Egypt or Syria people might've had no qualms about putting a maiden to death.
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Marcius said:
It's not a scholarly controversy. The idea of such a Roman law was invented by us perverts out of the whole cloth. :devil:
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Unclean whole cloth, in my case at least.:firedevil:
 

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Marcius said:
Could you please cite the relevant law?


Not sure it wasn't forbidden to rape outside central Rome (i.e. the Pomerium?) -- again, a legal citation would be most helpful.
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read the book of Hubert MONTEILHET: A novel of Life in Nero's Rome (NEROPOLIS) of 1984... you'll find a lot about crucifixion, even female...
I don't know what's from the first degree what's from the second....:sherlock:
 
Ducans said:
read the book of Hubert MONTEILHET: A novel of Life in Nero's Rome (NEROPOLIS) of 1984... you'll find a lot about crucifixion, even female...
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My question has not been concerned with crux.
Ducans said:
I don't know what's from the first degree what's from the second....:sherlock:
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Ducans said:
Roman laws did not permit to execute a virgin.....
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I have asked you to provide the relevant legal citation, a link to the law. If there's one, presumably it is here at the Roman Law Library, or in some other collection, right?

Ducans said:
so the soldiers followed the law, and while it was forbidden to rape in central Rome.... they did it in dungeons , while "under the ground " was not considerated as "central Rome"...:aaaaa:problem solved
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Again, I'd like to see the relevant citation -- that is, that Roman laws did not punish rape outside central Rome.
 
Ducans said:
Roman laws did not permit to execute a virgin..... so the soldiers followed the law, and while it was forbidden to rape in central Rome.... they did it in dungeons , while "under the ground " was not considerated as "central Rome"...:aaaaa:problem solved
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I accept it. ;)
And that make sense !
ppls may get boring it on crux side if the rape is done by too many soldiers. It's a punishment and not a porn making.
But under the ground, the entire regiment can enjoy whole orifices of a self annointed queen (that's my fantasy ) :D
 
Ducans: you're Francophone, is that correct? Here's the link to the article 'La "condamnation" au bordel dans les sources antiques' by François-Xavier Romanacce, Mélanges de l'Ecole française de Rome. Moyen Âge vol. 126, 1 (2014). The relevant part follows:

La première postule que les femmes concernées par la prostitution pénale furent, en priorité ou en exclusivité, des vierges, c’est-à-dire des filles libres non mariées50, et tend à lier cette pratique à la réticence des Romains à les mettre à mort. Réticence illustrée par le sort réservé à Iunilla, fille de Séjan, qui aurait été violée par le bourreau avant d’être mise à mort, à la suite de la disgrâce de son père. Or, rien ne prouve que nos sources fassent allusion à des vierges: ni l’exemple de Sabine, la compagne de Pionios, ni celui évoqué par Tertullien ne permettent de l’affirmer, tandis que la virginité d’Agnès relève d’un artifice destiné à la fois à la dramatisation du récit et à la défense de la virginité consacrée, comme l’a déjà noté Cécile Lanéry51. Rien ne justifie, surtout, de raccrocher cette pratique au récit que font Tacite et Dion Cassius de la mise à mort de la fille de Séjan52. Tel qu’il figure chez ces auteurs, ce récit n’apporte en effet la preuve d’aucune législation, ni même de coutume, concernant les vierges: inauditum chez Tacite met l’accent sur le caractère nouveau de la situation, mais n’implique absolument pas une règle préexistante. En employant le terme hosios, et non dikaios, Dion suggère un usage contraignant qui relève du droit naturel, et non des lois humaines. Le nefas choisi par Suétone, dans un passage au sens légèrement différent, suit la même tradition53.​
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Si, comme le révèle incontestablement cet épisode, l’exécution des vierges fut loin d’être fréquente, cela n’est certainement pas dû à une hypothétique interdiction de les mettre à mort, mais plutôt à la nature des crimes qui étaient punis de mort et, plus encore, à la probabilité que ces femmes, a priori jeunes d’après ce que l’on sait de l’âge au mariage dans le monde romain, aient eu un père ayant sur elles la puissance54. Dans le cas de Séjan, en revanche, la puissance du père a disparu du fait de sa condamnation: renvoyer sa fille à un éventuel survivant détenteur de la puissance ne ferait que retarder le dessein de Tibère. L’action du Prince, dictée par sa volonté d’agir vite, peut choquer en raison du caractère éminemment nouveau du fait, mais ne constitue ni une entorse à une règle établie, ni même un précédent. Si les autorités romaines choisirent de contraindre des femmes à la prostitution, leur volonté n’a donc rien à voir avec le sort de Iunilla.​
 
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